Thread: 223 on deer

The ELDMs are likely a problem to get working well from any factory rifle. The easiest solution for a good factory setup would be a Howa mini 1:8" and shoot 77gr TMKs.

Yep and if you get a Jefferson outdoors bottom metal for the mini you get more overall lenght possible in the mag and a nice flush floorplate.

Mine is the older 9 twist not the new 8 however it did stabilise and shoot the 73gr eldm quite well but only at a low charge so that might be worth a try in your rem Phil

Actually I should revist it now I can load it longer.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

OK, I had to go and clear a tree off a fence this morning but left instruction with 'Mac the Knife' aka Sharon. Bless her cotton picking socks.....she did take pictures before taking the knife to the animal but unfortunately her skills and appreciations of postmortem pictures doesn't match her skills at surgically removing fingers....

How ever, they give an idea. I also asked here to measure the holes and interestingly the the entry to the rib-cage was the same as the exit....1.5 cm

Exterior Rib-cage entry. Remember, this has already gone through the shoulder which we unfortunately don't have pictures of.

Attachment 167766

This is the interior picture of the same hole.

Attachment 167767

Going out the other side of the rib-cage interior.

Attachment 167768

Exiting the rib-cage exterior view.

Attachment 167769

The only picture I have of a shoulder and it is the exit to where I found the bullet perfectly mushroomed under the hide.
I has obviously run out of puff at this time.

Attachment 167770

Not bad really for a 55gr GameKing starting out the barrel at approximately 3000 fps.

I do look forward to the 69 gr TMK as from @Tahr's examples they look to kill a whole lot more emphatically.

Cheers
Phil

Thats good performance.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

Yes, I have considered the 73 gr ELDM's as an alternative though I don't think there is much chance of sourcing them easily at present.
I have managed to score 200 69gr TMK's and they are rated at 1 in 10 twist or faster so I am not anticipating any issues with those....I just need the time to develop the load and get to the range.
I will start with those, and who knows, I may find those to be all I need or want.

Cheers
Phil

They seem to work from touching through to 20 thou off the lands

@Phil_H while you are on a .223 roll this is worth looking at https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...-deer-antelope

In particular the post from "Formidilosus" (which should be on the page that comes up)

Originally Posted by Phil_H

Clients @7mmwsm.....Clients.

Mind you, unfortunately, the distinction between colleague, associate and client can at times become very blurry....

Not proud to say that but at times a sad reality.....

Cheers
Phil

Ha ha. Sometimes the wrong person has got the uniform on

Cripes those M14s' were rattly inaccurate damn things.

SOME of them were accurate ..some were VERY ACCURATE...shot my first big game animal with one..nanny goat at 50 yards just after cullers had taken 1400 of the farm...headshot her ....was about 10 at the time.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

SOME of them were accurate ..some were VERY ACCURATE...shot my first big game animal with one..nanny goat at 50 yards just after cullers had taken 1400 of the farm...headshot her ....was about 10 at the time.

Hah! A goats head at 50 yards is about 10 minutes of angle. On average their accuracy was shit

(Mind, I've had a glass of wine)

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Unlucky goat, or extremely talented shooter?

well before that all I had shot were rabbits...got VERY good at stalking in to 10-15 yards and popping them with 410...I can remember shooting hare at 30 yards and thought I was daniel boone.... the head looked like good place to shoot it,so I did LOL.
my older Bro had 3 mini 14s over the years,the first n third were accurate...not bruno fox accurate but plenty good enough to deal to goats at 250yards. the 2nd one got sent back quick smartly.

I spent a lot of lockdown time last year at my reloading bench making up various test loads that are taking me a while to get thru at the range. Had a few lovely sunny hours yesterday including with my little Ruger Ranch and thought these results might be useful. Next step of course is to post real world flesh impact pics. Hopefully before not too long. The range is only 38m cause I'm a lazy fella when it comes to traipsing back and forth to document and patch. And yes, there are 4 shots on each card. I'm shooting seated at a table with the fore end resting on a cushion. The aberrant charge was excluded from the average, forgot to note that on the page. Anyway..

3031 is equivalent to BM2 and ADI book max for BM2 is 23.5gr, likely you can go hotter. It's also not the ideal choice for velocity with a 69gr, too fast burning - 2206H is probably best if you can get some.

@Phil_H I taught both of my girls to take larger game starting with goats, then Fallow & snack pack Reds by using loads like the very mild recoiling Federal 55 grain soft points ,over a couple of years they would have shot over 250 goats & 14 deer with them .Even their first Stags were taken using the Federal Premium load with the Nosler 55 grain BT as both loads shot 3/4 MOA ,5 shot groups consistently .I used that time to teach them stalking, so shots at the start were limited to under 80 yards & then 150 yards,they never lost any animal & most were shoulder shots that dropped them like sacks of shite & the majority exited,l often found the shrapnel effect from shattered bone in the chest cavity.

If the eldest daughter had not claimed the Howa mini l would still be using it shooting the 77gr TMKs

PS may be the reason Sharon's photos were a bit shaky, was because she now has trouble reaching the shutter button .Hope she is mending well (obviously if she is out the back imagining a deer carcass is a giant carrot in revenge while hacking away at it ,she is doing well ) pass on our well wishes .


@grandpamac G'day Grandpamac I saw your " I spotted that the Bergara single shots were chambered in 6.5x57R I got all weak at the knees ." If you ever look at getting another close caliber or replacing those two 6.5x55 rifles ,l strongly recommend you look at a 6.5x65mm RWS a calibre IMO perfect for NZ & one of the most over looked cartridges in the word .It does everything the 6.5x55 does only better ,throws shade on the 260 & 264 Mag & does just about everything the 270 can do, all with exceptionally mild felt recoil that comes back in more like a slow roll than a punch .I have used the 120 &130gn Barnes TSX doing 3000fps +to take all our deer & a lot of plains game & took a Kudu at 314 yards with the 160gn while the wind was howling& it smashed both shoulders with a 3 inch exit & to this day have absolutely no recollection of the recoil ,one of the out standing features of the cartridge in the field is due to the mild rolling recoil you have the ability for quick follow up & staying on target .

Mine is high up on the should never have sold list ,it was only a budget build by a UK gunsmith for a work horse guide gun on the old Mark X Mauser actions & what l believe was a thinned down Boyd laminate stock that were both all the flavor over a 10-15 years ago, that l got cheap S/H in Africa.With the improvements in bullet construction & powders it would be a even better cartridge these days.
@Jhon I used a similar load doing around 2400 fps to start my daughters off shooting center fires & it was very accurate in 2 separate rifles l tried it in ,after a couple of week ends they did not want to use their .22's again & l quickly had to find another 223 not long after.

On a serious note ,can l also ask the Admin's ban any future posts by @Jhon showing his lay out of load testing notes .I spent 20 mins staring at my screen through the tear stains & my missus has had to make a booking with a therapist for me so l can try to regain my self worth after comparing my own smudged ,written upside down ,crossed out 3 times & at varying angle jottings from my own load testing notes.Put simply in the words of WE'RE N0T WORTHY .Seriously well done on showing us how it should be done

https://tenor.com/view/were-not-wort...ld-gif-9201571

Originally Posted by gimp

3031 is equivalent to BM2 and ADI book max for BM2 is 23.5gr, likely you can go hotter. It's also not the ideal choice for velocity with a 69gr, too fast burning - 2206H is probably best if you can get some.

Ok thks, yes I have AR2206H. Almost finished loading some up as I write this ��.

Originally Posted by Jhon

I spent a lot of lockdown time last year at my reloading bench making up various test loads that are taking me a while to get thru at the range. Had a few lovely sunny hours yesterday including with my little Ruger Ranch and thought these results might be useful. Next step of course is to post real world flesh impact pics. Hopefully before not too long. The range is only 38m cause I'm a lazy fella when it comes to traipsing back and forth to document and patch. And yes, there are 4 shots on each card. I'm shooting seated at a table with the fore end resting on a cushion. The aberrant charge was excluded from the average, forgot to note that on the page. Anyway..

Attachment 167837

@top of the south and I shot a Fallow spiker at about 150 yards with my 20" .223 using Fiocchi factory ammo shooting the same 69grn target projectile at 2600fps. Lung shot and it ran 15 yards and died before I needed to get another shot into it. I found the projectile under the skin on the off side and it was nicely mushroomed.

Here 'tis

Originally Posted by bunji

@Phil_H I taught both of my girls to take larger game starting with goats, then Fallow & snack pack Reds by using loads like the very mild recoiling Federal 55 grain soft points ,over a couple of years they would have shot over 250 goats & 14 deer with them .Even their first Stags were taken using the Federal Premium load with the Nosler 55 grain BT as both loads shot 3/4 MOA ,5 shot groups consistently .I used that time to teach them stalking, so shots at the start were limited to under 80 yards & then 150 yards,they never lost any animal & most were shoulder shots that dropped them like sacks of shite & the majority exited,l often found the shrapnel effect from shattered bone in the chest cavity.

If the eldest daughter had not claimed the Howa mini l would still be using it shooting the 77gr TMKs

PS may be the reason Sharon's photos were a bit shaky, was because she now has trouble reaching the shutter button .Hope she is mending well (obviously if she is out the back imagining a deer carcass is a giant carrot in revenge while hacking away at it ,she is doing well ) pass on our well wishes .


@grandpamac G'day Grandpamac I saw your " I spotted that the Bergara single shots were chambered in 6.5x57R I got all weak at the knees ." If you ever look at getting another close caliber or replacing those two 6.5x55 rifles ,l strongly recommend you look at a 6.5x65mm RWS a calibre IMO perfect for NZ & one of the most over looked cartridges in the word .It does everything the 6.5x55 does only better ,throws shade on the 260 & 264 Mag & does just about everything the 270 can do, all with exceptionally mild felt recoil that comes back in more like a slow roll than a punch .I have used the 120 &130gn Barnes TSX doing 3000fps +to take all our deer & a lot of plains game & took a Kudu at 314 yards with the 160gn while the wind was howling& it smashed both shoulders with a 3 inch exit & to this day have absolutely no recollection of the recoil ,one of the out standing features of the cartridge in the field is due to the mild rolling recoil you have the ability for quick follow up & staying on target .

Mine is high up on the should never have sold list ,it was only a budget build by a UK gunsmith for a work horse guide gun on the old Mark X Mauser actions & what l believe was a thinned down Boyd laminate stock that were both all the flavor over a 10-15 years ago, that l got cheap S/H in Africa.With the improvements in bullet construction & powders it would be a even better cartridge these days.
@Jhon I used a similar load doing around 2400 fps to start my daughters off shooting center fires & it was very accurate in 2 separate rifles l tried it in ,after a couple of week ends they did not want to use their .22's again & l quickly had to find another 223 not long after.

On a serious note ,can l also ask the Admin's ban any future posts by @Jhon showing his lay out of load testing notes .I spent 20 mins staring at my screen through the tear stains & my missus has had to make a booking with a therapist for me so l can try to regain my self worth after comparing my own smudged ,written upside down ,crossed out 3 times & at varying angle jottings from my own load testing notes.Put simply in the words of WE'RE N0T WORTHY .Seriously well done on showing us how it should be done

https://tenor.com/view/were-not-wort...ld-gif-9201571

Greetings Bunji,
Thanks for your reply. I think that my 6.5x55 T3 I bought a few years back will do for the limited hunting I am likely to do in the future however I have to agree with you about the 6.5x65 RWS. Charles Benke (I think) wrote about it and the 6.5x64 Brenneke a few years ago in Handloader. I currently provide what I call technical assistance to a friend who has a 6.5-06 and who does not handload. He absolutely loves it. There are just not that many gaps left to fill in the rifle cupboard which usually halts any new purchases as long as I think about it for a while. The 6.5x64 is the 6.5-06 with a longer neck and the RWS a bit different again. All truly great rounds, especially in NZ. As a retired draughtsman (amoung other things) my handloading notes are reasonably neat but not as good as they were 40 years ago so to remove any chance of offending I will refrain from post any pictures.
Regards Grandpamac.