223 on deer

Finally got around to shooting some 73gn elm load tests today , it was a quick session at first light .
These were just shot over the bonnet of the Ute with a bipod and jacket rolled up under the Butt of the stock .
I wasn't at my usual spot where I shoot so didn't have my usual setup .

The flyer's were mainly me I'll admit , but I'm happy to work with these results .
The 23.7gn load was the heaviest powder charge I loaded for in this test and there is zero pressure sign's so will keep upping the powder and see if it tightens up .
The group top centre is my chosen 60gn VMax load and the problem was me not the ammo in this case , I was struggling to get a good shooting position with this first group and this load usually shoots around 14mm-15mm at 100m
https://i.imgur.com/sVlWN7f.jpg

I like 223 & 556 even better, and AR platform, bush master is my favorite as well sako85. I shot an old M16 few times which is a Vietnam war capture I think, used standard FMJ 55gr, really nice! And, it was the reason for me wanted a 223, when AR still allowed and when I was in Akl. Very good tool for bush. Personally, I do `t enjoy 7.62x39 even these two bullets are designed for same purpose. I knew some people they use SKS sort for bush hunting, pigs, goats.

80 grain Targex. 20 to 250 yards. All chest - shoulder shot. 5 shots for 4. One high shoulder shot needed a fixer but it wasn't going anywhere.

Breaking them down today so it will be interesting to see the performance on these bigger deer.

Attachment 204519

I had to do 2 loads on the quad. This was the next day.

Attachment 204520

Im surprised that ute could cope with the load more to the point :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Nathan F

Im surprised that ute could cope with the load more to the point :thumbsup:

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FORD. You should have great empathy :)

Suits me just fine...

For Old Rally Drivers

Looks a tiny bit damp there Tahr Good shooting, should keep the farmer happy
We have the same problem over here 4 gates open on the local dam and the big one up stream at 99% and probably will spill

Good stuff. It would take me days to choose them up

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Originally Posted by Tahr

FORD. You should have great empathy :)

Suits me just fine...

For Old Rally Drivers

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When you finally come to your senses I will be happy to take care of you

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Originally Posted by Nathan F

When you finally come to your senses I will be happy to take care of you

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:)

back when owned a 1600 sport escort...I believed it was fs off rotary drivers.......

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

back when owned a 1600 sport escort...I believed it was fs off rotary drivers.......

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Fix or repair daily....forever on rubbish dump...maybe....who knows

Sent from my SM-A135F using Tapatalk

So the 80 grn Targex will gỗ right through a solid hind at 180 yards and a spiker at 250. The performance is very impressive. High SD sure makes a difference to penetration. The 69 grn seldom exit and then only on Fallow (still work though).

Attachment 204590

Out on the hind

Attachment 204591

In on the hind

Attachment 204592

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Originally Posted by Tahr

So the 80 grn Targex will gỗ right through a solid hind at 180 yards and a spiker at 250. The performance is very impressive. High SD sure makes a difference to penetration. The 69 grn seldom exit and then only on Fallow (still work though).

Attachment 204590

Out on the hind

Attachment 204591

In on the hind

Attachment 204592

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coal w/ targex?

I just received some new projectiles to play with here in Australia .
They are Copper Monolithic bullets made by Outer Edge and they have been recommended to me by a couple of Blokes who shoot Big Pigs with their .223 rifles .
I'm going to assemble some load development rounds and start accuracy testing over the next few weeks ( their advice is to drive them hard )
I have no access to Deer when I'm over here , but Pigs do show their face occasionally on our place when it starts to get wet ( summer ) so thought I'd try to develop a load that will drive it's way through a Pig :thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/aanwdS5.jpg

bizzare...a 51grn pill that needs a 9" twist......... the 50-55grn barnes are happy in a 12" twist.
hopefully they work well for you,Barnes really make the wee cartridge shine sub 150 yards....

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Originally Posted by Howa1500

coal w/ targex?

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Can you get the 80’s anymore?

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Originally Posted by Tahr

So the 80 grn Targex will gỗ right through a solid hind at 180 yards and a spiker at 250. The performance is very impressive. High SD sure makes a difference to penetration. The 69 grn seldom exit and then only on Fallow (still work though).

Attachment 204590

Out on the hind

Attachment 204591

In on the hind

Attachment 204592

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Any suggestion for 223 rifle, except sako85? Thank you. Nice work!! But, all the guts, organs and tendons, how would you like to use or dispose them?

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

bizzare...a 51grn pill that needs a 9" twist......... the 50-55grn barnes are happy in a 12" twist.
hopefully they work well for you,Barnes really make the wee cartridge shine sub 150 yards....

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It will be interesting to see how they fly .
The 57 gn ones are the business for bigger critters according to my advisors.
These projectiles do have a reputation for accuracy though and the company has made inroads into the extreme long range world .
The thing that holds them back is the cost , but each bullet is made on a CNC lathe not punched out of a mould in the thousands per hour .

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Originally Posted by Howa1500

coal w/ targex?

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Long mag in a Tikka. I will look it up tomorrow. If your mag is under 2.3" (Tikka length) use the 77 grn Sierra TMK.

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

It will be interesting to see how they fly .
The 57 gn ones are the business for bigger critters according to my advisors.
These projectiles do have a reputation for accuracy though and the company has made inroads into the extreme long range world .
The thing that holds them back is the cost , but each bullet is made on a CNC lathe not punched out of a mould in the thousands per hour .

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so where the ones floating around some time back..GS Custom think they were....never heard a bad word muttered about them.

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Originally Posted by Freezer

Can you get the 80’s anymore?

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No you cant. I don't think Bryn (Targex) will mind me saying that he can't get the Berger jackets for the 80 grn and he doesn't know know when Berger will supply him. But not any time soon.

I have 200 left and they are now precious. Won't be blazing them at wallaby anymore - will use the 69 grn on them and save the 80's for deer.

Having said this the 80 grn ELDM are back in the retailers and they are pretty good. And I have 200 77 Sierra TMK so personally Im not desperate.

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Originally Posted by Black Rabbit

Any suggestion for 223 rifle, except sako85? Thank you. Nice work!! But, all the guts, organs and tendons, how would you like to use or dispose them?

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Hi @Black Rabbit, I have a Weatherby Vanguard 223. It shoots very accurately and they are a fairly cheap rifle. I paid 600 for mine second hand. Made in Japan by Howa I think.

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Originally Posted by Black Rabbit

Any suggestion for 223 rifle, except sako85? Thank you. Nice work!! But, all the guts, organs and tendons, how would you like to use or dispose them?

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The guts and organs rot on the hill but I always slash the stomach to get the break down going and I always put them in as a discrete place as I can. No matter whether Im on public or private land. I personally don't eat offal.

Often I bone the deer out on the hill and the same as above - everything is left out of sight if I can

When I was selling deer back in the day there was a market for tendons with the dew claws on them so I used to bring them out and dry them to sell. Now it all gets dumped or left on the hill.

The stuff that I take home that is not edible (like skins and bones on whole gutted deer) I put into black plastic rubbish bags and take to the City dump. Sometimes people take some bones for their dogs.

I don't know of a bad brand of .223. From my experience I would choose from a Savage, Howa, CZ, M7 Remington or Tikka. Tikka are the safest choice. Just my opinion. I would choose from those brands because they all have a faster twist. 1:9 or faster. I would go for a 1:8. Then you can shoot lighter and heavier bullets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tahr

So the 80 grn Targex will gỗ right through a solid hind at 180 yards and a spiker at 250. The performance is very impressive. High SD sure makes a difference to penetration. The 69 grn seldom exit and then only on Fallow (still work though).

Attachment 204590

Out on the hind

Attachment 204591

In on the hind

Attachment 204592

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The 95gr for 243 will blow your mind.A sensational pill.

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Originally Posted by RUMPY

Hi @Black Rabbit, I have a Weatherby Vanguard 223. It shoots very accurately and they are a fairly cheap rifle. I paid 600 for mine second hand. Made in Japan by Howa I think.

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Thank you! Yeah, I heard Japanese does make rifle and parts with their high quality steel and machining quality, but only two types bolt action are selling in Japan for deer hunting.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

The guts and organs rot on the hill but I always slash the stomach to get the break down going and I always put them in as a discrete place as I can. No matter whether Im on public or private land. I personally don't eat offal.

Often I bone the deer out on the hill and the same as above - everything is left out of sight if I can

When I was selling deer back in the day there was a market for tendons with the dew claws on them so I used to bring them out and dry them to sell. Now it all gets dumped or left on the hill.

The stuff that I take home that is not edible (like skins and bones on whole gutted deer) I put into black plastic rubbish bags and take to the City dump. Sometimes people take some bones for their dogs.

I don't know of a bad brand of .223. From my experience I would choose from a Savage, Howa, CZ, M7 Remington or Tikka. Tikka are the safest choice. Just my opinion. I would choose from those brands because they all have a faster twist. 1:9 or faster. I would go for a 1:8. Then you can shoot lighter and heavier bullets.

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Thank you for these details, I will keep it mind. My plan for 223 rifle is something actually has an iron sight on it. Good hunt!! Looking forward to your next:thumbsup: and may some day later will bother you again for those deer parts. :P

Hi everyone, what "tahr" said is right, I am out of the jackets I need to make the 80gr.224 bullets now & it is a waiting game till more jackets are available.
That could happen in a couple of months or six months, totally out of my control. Just have to wait till Bergers have more of the J4 jackets I need.
I still have jackets for the .224 69gr I make.
Most of the other bullets I make are available except for the 95gr .243 which I am also waiting for more jackets to be able to make them.
This is partly due to the shortages but it is also a thing I always have to deal with as the cost of jackets is high & to be able to make all the bullets I make I have to carry a lot of different jackets (money invested in other words) & I can only afford to carry so much.
Also for the 6.5 people out there I am still working on those & waiting for a punch I need to arrive from the States (its on its way), Once I am completely happy with their performance, they will be available. I won't be selling them in big lots to just see them being used on trade me to rip someone off.
Thanks for being patient & I'll do the best I can to keep those that want them supplied & hopefully hunting /shooting.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Howa1500

coal w/ targex?

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@Howa1500

80 grn Targex 1.976" to ogive. That's 20 thou off lands. Rifle is a Tikka. Waters extended mag.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so where the ones floating around some time back..GS Custom think they were....never heard a bad word muttered about them.

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GS Custom Bullets really good. Use them mostly back in SA. I e mailed them a few times now but no answer. Their agent here in NZ also not answering so i doubt he still in trade.

69gr TMK at 307yd. MV of 3050.

Attachment 205139

Centre shoulder shot dropped him on the spot. Tried to get up very briefly - a few seconds at most and no follow up required. Massive trauma behind the shoulder, big hole through into the chest cavity, the contents of which were pretty well soupified. No exit.

Shot some load development with the 57gn Outer edge copper Monolithic projectiles today .
I'm using 2206H powder and I just can't get enough in the case to get up to the next accuracy node , 25gn is compressed but shows no pressure signs .
Outer Edge recommend BM2 powder , so might have to track some down .
I definitely found an accuracy node between 23.6gn and 24gn , but I have no idea of the velocity because I don't have a chronograph .
I'm confident that these things will be the ducks nuts , but they need to be driven fast to really shine and show their true devastation on target .
The top left target was using Fiocchi factory ammo to sight in because I'd had the scope off the rifle
https://i.imgur.com/sbH3iqi.jpg

23.6gr looks good, I would be going with that. Your powder could be a hot batch so may be going quick enough.

see if you can find winchester 748 if cant get the BM2 as you will be able to fit more in the case being a ball powder.

You need to get a chronograph. I’m loading 26gns of 2206h with a 69gn pill.

Same book max for a 60gn pill. Be fine with a 57gn pill. Just work up your load.
Attachment 206179

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Originally Posted by Nathan F

You need to get a chronograph. I’m loading 26gns of 2206h with a 69gn pill.

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A Chronograph is on the wish list , maybe a self funded Christmas present :thumbsup:
The issue with these projectiles is that they are really long ( copper monolithic) and at the recommended seating depth they protrude down into the case quite a bit .
I knew when I started that 2206H wasn’t probably going to be the right powder , but it is what I have on hand at the moment.
The good news though is that my little test yesterday has shown that they will shoot in my rifle/ barrel .
A couple of guys that I’ve been in contact with who use these say that they up the .223 effectiveness by quite a margin on bigger / heavier Pigs etc and that’s what I’m chasing.

Here is link to a podcast with the owner/ developer of Outer Edge projectiles .
Hope the link works for anyone that might be interested .


https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcas...=1000531075357

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

A Chronograph is on the wish list , maybe a self funded Christmas present :thumbsup:
The issue with these projectiles is that they are really long ( copper monolithic) and at the recommended seating depth they protrude down into the case quite a bit .
I knew when I started that 2206H wasn’t probably going to be the right powder , but it is what I have on hand at the moment.
The good news though is that my little test yesterday has shown that they will shoot in my rifle/ barrel .
A couple of guys that I’ve been in contact with who use these say that they up the .223 effectiveness by quite a margin on bigger / heavier Pigs etc and that’s what I’m chasing.

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Fair enough. Just out of interest put the caliper's on the bullet for OAL . I will measure mine later and report back.

Just measured up some projectiles.
Outer Edge 57gn = 23.0mm
Hornady 60gn Vmax = 22.1mm

But a lot of the difference is in the Ogive , I don’t have a way of measuring the Ogive but for example.
When measuring cartridge OAL to the lands in my rifle the length is .

Outer Edge 57gn = 58.42mm
Hornady Vmax 60gn = 59.62mm
The Vmax is seated out further before it touches the lands , so there is an immediate increase in available space in the case , that plus the fact that the Outer Edge is 0.9mm longer to begin with and that it needs a bigger jump to the lands all contributes to 2206H not being the best choice.
Outer Edge has recommended load data for their projectiles and I can see now why their advice is for BM2 .

20 odd goats 3 spikers and 16 pigs for the .223 yesterday arvo on a sweap of the new pine trees over the back one 70pound sow shot in the crease with the 65gk made it all of 15 yards everything else was head shot

Absolute little laser and these 65 game kings hold their own when needed to put one threw the vitals fountains of blood from the pork