Thats nasty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
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Thats nasty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
What a great thread. Thank you for all the good information.
If I had to choose just one rifle that best suited what I do, it would be a .223. I don't shoot anywhere near as many animals as some other guys on this forum. But I have a steady trickle of meat and pet food coming in as a result of wandering around. I'm retired, and I am fortunate to have access to properties where pests need to be controlled. While I prefer to hunt in the daylight, most of my shooting nowadays is done after dark.
I've shot several deer with a .223 now. The deer below was shot with a Belmont 'Green' cartridge. These have a 55 grain projectile called an MPG. They are lead-free and are probably made by Barnes. I didn't know much about these cartridges when I bought them, but I thought they'd be worth trying. I found them to be very accurate when zeroing my scope at the range. The deer was maybe 120 metres away, and I aimed for the centre of the neck. It dropped immediately. I could not see a bullet hole. I eventually found the tiny entry and exit holes. The bullet had gone through a vertebrae joint without breaking bone and it was fortunate that the spinal cord had been severed. When shooting at smaller game sometimes I found that the bullets 'pencilled' through, other times they exploded and made a heck of a mess. When I was checking the sighting one day, I had my target tacked to the trunk of a six-inch thick trunk on a wilding pine. The bullets went right through which surprised me. Having seen this, I would not recommend these projectiles for body shots. They would be fine for brain shots, and better than nothing if you don't have a choice. Very accurate in my rifle though. The rifle shown is a Ruger American Predator. I chose it for it's Picatinny rail and its relatively long barrel. A bit 'clunky' in operation compared to my Howa, but deadly accurate and it gives me more velocity with some loads.
https://i.imgur.com/wiNDofl.jpg
For a while I had a Pulsar night-vision scope on my Howa. I might have typically taken it out two or three nights a week. It worked very well. I eventually sold the Pulsar, and later replaced it with a Sytong which has served me well. One of the properties I have access to has wide, open paddocks and it can be hard to get close enough to shoot hares and possums with a .22 rimfire. So I've used the .223 most times when I go out. I sometimes carry some simple bamboo shooting sticks to enable me to take a steadier, standing shot. I prefer to shoot from a prone position, but sometimes it is safer to shoot from a standing angle, and sometimes I simply can't see through the grass if I'm lying down. The hare in the photo below was probably shot with standard Belmont Black 55 grain soft points. I believe these loads used to be corked with a Hornady 55 grain soft point, but nowadays I think they use Speer. I could be wrong. But the Belmont 55s are consistently accurate in my rifles.
https://i.imgur.com/qJ6vWwM.jpg
And here is a nice wee pig. Not sure which projectile I used, but was possibly a Belmont 55 soft point... these cartridges have never disappointed me.
https://i.imgur.com/R9DfsCO.jpg
The Belmont ammo is versatile too. If you ever need to cut a fence wire, they will do the job.... even from 70 metres away. I had to go back the next morning and fix the fence.
https://i.imgur.com/EeYhpUA.jpg
These were more difficult to get home compared to the usual talley of a couple of possums. Pretty sure I used Belmont 62 grain soft points on this occasion. Very effective, but this particular load doesn't seem to group so well in my rifles compared to the near-perfect Belmont 55 grain options. Not sure now where I aimed. I probably squeezed off carefully on the first hog, then just went for the front end when they started to move off. All one shot kills from memory, and only one didn't drop on the spot... he travelled for just a few metres. Getting all the pigs in one night might be considered a good result, but I missed seeing them on subsequent trips. Big animals are rare on this farm.
https://i.imgur.com/qslitE5.jpg
You might wonder about the tape and string on my gear. I tie the Howa magazines in place. They can drop out easily because the release lever is easily knocked. I've shortened the lever, but I still like to ensure that I won't lose my magazine. The tape helps me to find my gear if I put it down on the seat of the car or if I drop it in the scrub.
https://i.imgur.com/Cf2VuoS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wgE9THM.jpg
I've been making my own handloads using the brass from my Belmont ammo (ADI). I have had very good results using Speer 70 grain projectiles (stock number 1053) propelled by AR2206H powder. These give me very pleasing groups and they have never disappointed me with their terminal performance on large or small targets (although I don't think I've ever shot at anything over 150 metres away). They have a similar point of impact to the Belmont 55 gr soft points when shot through the Howa, but for some reason their point of impact differs too much from the Belmonts when shot through the Ruger American Predator. They still group consistently, but I have to sight the Predator for just one or the other. I'm fairly sure that I would have used a 70 grain Speer on this spiker.
https://i.imgur.com/KK0pNRm.jpg
I have owned rifles chambered in .303 British and .308 Winchester, but I no longer have them. The only other centrefire cartridge I use nowadays is .357 magnum. The .223 has been relatively cheap to reload, and it hasn't been hard to find powder and projectiles. I like the idea that the only primers I need to buy are small rifle as they fit both my centrefire calibres. (Incidentally... I was pleased to see an email from Delta Mike yesterday informing me that they have some small rifle primers for sale... so maybe the drought is starting to ease). The .223 is versatile and effective in the hands of a sensible operator. I doubt that I will ever get a 'bigger' gun.
Great post :thumbsup:
This thread continues to be my favourite .
Just had a talley up of my components and I’ve shot approximately 1200 rounds of 223 in the last 12 months.
Vast majority are just playing with load development at targets, but 19 Predators ( Dingoes and Cats ) are no longer with us .
The good old .223 is an awesome round. Took my Tikka 18" for a walk today no pictures sorry but 13 goats the furtherest was a nanny and kid at 450 yards with the 69grn Targex.
There are a dam good pill.
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Gotta love those 70 grain Speers.
Yes.... While I need comparatively few cartridges for hunting, I have used a heap of of them at range sessions. Always something else to try, or I change or check a scope I'm glad I got a lot of the experimentation done before the component shortages arose.
With my limited experience, if I had to pick one projectile from all the .223 bullets I've used, I'd choose the 70 grain Speer. However, none of the other soft pointed bullets I've used have disappointed me. It may not be apparent in the photo, but the MPG projectiles have a small hollow point.
https://i.imgur.com/WoOmOyJ.jpg
Sighting Distance.
Many folks here will already have this sussed, but in case there are followers who have never really thought about it, here is my thinking on the subject...
For big game hunting I've been a fan of sighting for 'maximum point blank range'..... to me this means zeroing a rifle so that the bullet will theoretically always land within a certain sized circle out to a maximum range. Some people might pick a bigger circle, but for argument's sake let's use a 100mm circle. For a theoretical example, say I have a 55 grain bullet travelling at 900 meters per second and the centre axis of my scope is 38mm above the centre of my bore. According to one ballistic calculation, I will always be able to aim directly at the centre of a boiler-room shot out to 207 metres and the bullet should never be more than 50mm higher or lower than the cross-hairs. A the end of the muzzle, the bullet will be 38 mm low. It will rise to the line of sight and hit where the crosshairs are placed at around 27 metres. The trajectory will peak around 100 metres where the point of impact will be 50mm high. The rifle will be zeroed for 180 metres. At 207 metres the bullet will hit 50mm low.
A maximum point blank range type of sighting will work for all circumstances if the shooter is very familiar where the bullet will be at various ranges. But of course, to be accurate, one needs to know how far away the target is. Without a range finder, even an expert can find it hard to judge distance accurately in unfamiliar territory.
My current thinking tells me it is best to zero my all-purpose, farm-hunting .223 rifle at 100 metres. A .223 is a precision tool well suited to 'varmint' sized targets and meat-saving shots on larger animals. It is good not to have to go through the mental gymnastics of figuring out where to aim if attempting a brain shot at the typical maximum range I'd shoot which is maybe 120 metres.
Theoretically.... if I am using the same rifle and ammo used for the first calculation, but I zero the rifle for 100 metres, I should see results close to the following:
At the muzzle: impact 38mm below the cross-hairs
At 25 metres: 16mm below point of aim
At 50 metres: point of aim more or less matches point of impact
Between 70 and 85 metres the trajectory is at its peak and will hit 4mm high
At 100 metres: spot on
At 120 metres: 11mm low
150 metres: 41mm low
200 metres: 134mm low
250 metres: 283mm low
300 metres: over half a metre low
So using this rifle, I can shoot at anything between 30 and 120 metres without having to worry about compensating for the trajectory. And in my current world most of my shots would be presented within these distances. If my rifle was mostly used for culling goats in open country, then I might zero it closer to 200 metres.
The figures above are just a theoretical example. With different bullet weights, bullet types, powders and barrels, the figures and performance will differ.
And I've found that I am not the expert I thought I was when I was as a teenager. There is a heap I don't know.... or which I could improve on. Always open to ideas and different view points.
No pics sorry. Took the kids out in holidays with the 223. 15 goats and a 130lb boar all taken with the 73g ELD M. None needed a follow up shot. My 11yr old shot the boar at 110mt and 3 goats at 190mtrs. My oldest 13yr old shot 2 at 130mtr and then 2 190mtrs.
Haven't been out much since the roar except a weekend tahr hunting a while back, went for a walk this weekend. 210m, through both front shoulders, broke both front legs, bullet under the skin on the far side. Dropped on the spot and kicked a bit.
Attachment 230589
Projectile? Good young eater too
80 ELDM
Dont think i got around to posting this one. Meat was donated to a local fundraiser.
Not normally one for shooting farmland stags but he had the most meat and was the dumbest deer of the bunch.
Carbonlite , dpt , vx5 and belmont black 77grn match king. Broke 3 ribs and broke the offside shoulder from memory found just inside the skin. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a126ab8316.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0ea6d67245.jpg
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How fast are you launching them man?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
2800 and a bit FPS. Work well, imagine the 77gr TMK would work just as well but without needing a longer mag (way more spenny though)Quote:
Originally Posted by 199p
As stated by others above
The V Max is a varminter round with shallow penetration and explosive frangibility. It makes shallow major wound channels. We use them in 223 on kangaroos when culling and we dont want the meat, obviously headshots is different.
You will be better of on any of the standard soft tips. If u have the right twist barrel there are some 77gr bergers
That a rusa?Quote:
Originally Posted by 199p
223 on deer, why would you use anything else.
Attachment 231117
With no recoil you can have the confidence to shoot on the run and get perfect bullet placement
Shot 2 fallow last night both around 100m standing headshots the mighty .223 love that rifle.
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I agree, a very versatlie riffle which can be used on all sorts of game big or small.Quote:
Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP
I was using the 62gr SP's, very accurate and cheap. With the help of some helpful forum folk I had the load sorted in just 6 shots resulting in .44 of an inch.
Yeah there's a high amount of knowledge and help on here for sure
Cant wait for my one to be ready
What make are you getting?Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
Elude
I don't know of it but all the best, you are going to love the 223.Quote:
Originally Posted by tac a1
Your other riffles will stay in the safe.
Negative its a fallowQuote:
Originally Posted by superdiver
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Antlers threw me off but then after I posted I looked at coat and realized it wasn't what I thought.
This sounds like heresy with the comments about the venerable 223. The elephant in the roomis that whilst all the haters are posting about the ineffectiveness of the 223 there must of been heaps killed by the 223. Logic sometimes gets lost in the clamour to express an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag
There's also a saying "there's none so blind as those that want to be".
Attachment 231201Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Only half blind after yesterdays surgery :roll:
I'm picking you don't want to be though.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag
What's the story?
heal up fast and heal up well mate...
Thanks MDQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Haven’t been out deer hunting in months because of a shoulder injury. Finally got out for a multi day hunt with the 223rem and the 14 month old pup. This hind was a tricky, farthest for the trip 384m with a 34 degree uphill shot shooting off my walking poles. Perfect shot placement and dropped instantly with a 75gr ELD-m.
Getting the chamber throat reamed out next week to accommodate 80 grainers and 75gr with less compressed load using ADI 2208 powder.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...efd4b280_b.jpg
Have you tried 2206H with the 75gns?
Who is doing the chamber?
384mtrs for the 223 on the hind,good shooting.
No not tried 2206H but I have plenty of 2208 too run both 308 and 223 for a year or two. A local smith, seen a couple of his competition builds and a 7PRC pimped out hunting rig, they all shoot well.
If it's a Tikka mine didn't like the 80 ELDM but loves the Targex 80 with factory chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
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I was getting compressed loads with the 73gn ELD-M with 2208 at an OAL of 2.325 (chamber limited). Changing to 2206H fixed the compression problem and I'm getting 2900fps from my Browning.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
Murph?
Yes Murph
You still got your big cannon. The 223 must seem like small change. That is a very good distance to smack over an animal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
