About 67mm from memory, a bit longer than most .223 mags will allow
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About 67mm from memory, a bit longer than most .223 mags will allow
That is long!Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Jefferson's bottom metal on my Howa allows about 63mm....quite a bit more than the stock magazine but still a long way short of 67mm.
It's quite annoying that the Howa mini magazine is so restrictive for OAL. The modified accurate mags I'm using would allow longer if you wanted e.g. you could chamber for a longer throat and seat the 88gr ELDMs out further. My chamber is roughly set up for a 75-80 seated with the base at the neck/shoulder junction in the case.
Left - right: Red hind 250m, fallow buck 170m, bull tahr 60m. Nice little mushrooms
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Those are 80 ELDMs gimp?
Yes, 80gr ELDM at 2810fps muzzle
That is one of the most interesting recovered bullet photos I have seen in a while @gimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
I’ve been a staunch advocate of ELD-M bullets in my homeland for a good while now - I am using the 6mm version and flattening reds, fallow and goats past 400m. Very happy indeed with the terminal performance. By and large I get lambasted by the Europeans for being an unethical heathen for even hinting at the use of “match bullets”. (Add that to the concept of using a .224 calibre rifle and I’d be put on the rack.)
I’d love to know what the expansion on those mushrooms is as a function of calibre. They all look over 2x and a bit more.
It seems though that if the ELDM hit solid bone they do seperate (as per one of gimp's Tahr). Over all though the ELDM do seem to hold together better than the Sierra Tipped MK.
Ive just had 2 of the "Waters" 6 shot 2.6" (66mm) Tikka mags arrive so that I can try the 80ELDM, and seat the 77TMK I'm using a bit further out. I don't though expect to see a big advantage with the ELDM on deer.
I doubt you'd notice a difference. This little guy did separate, found halfway through the off shoulder. I didn't find the core but I also didn't really waste time looking as it was more or less dark and I had a big walk out
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270m
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Go you @gimp! Most excellent. You are a true .223 savant. I have put mine to one side until their antlers fall off.
Where did the ELDM strike and how did it perform?
Absolute savage. Love your work with the 223 mateQuote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Nice one and @gimp bring back your videos!Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'd say I'm an unreasonable optimist, or purely irrationalQuote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Hit high in the shoulder and broke the spine, died instantly.
Great! And it was a wonderful pic too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Good sh*t @gimp
Love your confidence and the fact you go full send with the .223!
I keep thinking about it, but I get a lot more hunting done just hunting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer
Glad you were kidding Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
With a .223 and a .308 you probably don't need much else, unless you really want something else as well, in which case you definitely do need it. Clear?
Regards, with the right number of rifles, today anyway Grandpamac.
Unfortunate! The .223 took care of 19 Marlborough goats over the last few days for a bit of deer habitat improvement, and I only have 300 or 400 ELDs in stock so I might run out soon at this rateQuote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
Clean crease shot 65gr game king at aprox 160mQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Collected a rib on the way in and way out.
Drunken walked 10ish meters with a fountain of blood squirting out the off side before falling over dead.
Much more like the performance I would expect of this projectile.
In
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Out
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In
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Out
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Great. Good skinning job - looks like it was done cold, and they can be difficult - your back must be coming right.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Yep getting there getting strenght and mobility back slowly:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Yes done cold and thanks for noticing :D was going slow and carefully to not hole skin to get tanned for Daughter.
I find it quite comforting to see and hear that there are dudes who have actually done some home work.
Realising that such a small pill can have such a huge effect if used appropriatly...good stuff and may the .223 live on eh..
Bloody nice shot placement for her first deer, awesome [emoji106] some tasty eating right there [emoji41]Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
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Here's another interesting bit of .223 performance and quite different to the soft ELDM & Sierra tipped. More like Cam's 65 grain but a bit harder and controlled expansion. This was shot not long ago with a Nosler 64 grain bonded solid base (not the old Nosler solid base-this is a modern bonded bullet that has sadly just gone out of production). I have 200 hundred of them. The 62 grain Speer Gold Dot perform in a similar fashion and they are still available. https://www.nzammo.co.nz/product/165...ategoryId=1513
Shot was about 120 yards and hit at an angle in the shoulder and the bullet penetrated right through and out the paunch. They penetrate like crazy and one went right through a big lump of a Red spiker. They are bowling along at 3150 fps.
In balance I think I prefer the big soft target bullets because they seem to have a higher shock and damage factor, but you need a 1:8 twist. In my 1:9 Savage theses little Nosler's are pretty damn good, albeit that Ive only shot 3 deer with them. All one shot kills.
Exit
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In, under the shoulder.
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Out.
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The big Red that one went right through at 240 yards. Ran about 25 yards.
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I'll offer my 2c here.
Got mates down these ways who use 223 for reds as bush rifles. They typically run 60gr + projectiles.
Sierra 65gr Gamekings being the go to for most. From what I've gathered their neck shooting, behind the shoulder aiming for the lungs in much the way a bow hunter would or shoulder shooting.
Most are having no problems with the deer dropping within a few steps. I've shot a few fallow pre 2019 and it worked really well with the likes of the 64gr powershoks et but I just dont for reds as although I can absolutely place my shot I like to know full well I've got plenty of gun. Hence why I own 7mm and 30cals.
One mate runs a 13" howa mini action, bush hunts and man can he put a few down.
I hope my rambling helps the OP :thumbsup:
I run a 22-250 and am looking at putting some 62-64gr pellets through it instead of the standard 55gr that most ammo comes with off the shelf just to have a slightly better for bigger targets than goats.
Sierra make a 63 grain semi-pointed flat base bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
It's rated for 1:14-1:12 barrels.
Don't let the 'Varmiter' tag fool you!
https://www.sierrabullets.com/produc...ber-63-gr-smp/
So is there any accepted wisdom on what would be an 'ideal' barrel twist rate for dropping reds?
anything tight enough to stabilize projectiles.... guys have been dropping reds with 50grn projectiles since the 222 was invented.... the deer havent got any harder to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strummer
Yes, I was more meaning: are the projectiles heavier than the 60ish grn mark better medicine? Faster twists can stabilise these better...so theyre the way to go?
buy a 243......or a 22hp savage both were made many years ago to do what a fast twist .223 is doing now...be able to shoot 80ish grn projectiles fast....
seriously if you arent shooting past 150 yards,just be happy with the rifle you have...pick your shots and enjoy the venison.
You do have a way with words.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
1:8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strummer
1:9 up tp 69grn
1:8 70-80 grn.
As per gimp above, 1:8 (and heavier bullets) is optimal.
Good info.
Now we have twist wisdom sussed...what about ideal barrel length I wonder? How short is too short?!
Greetings Strummer,Quote:
Originally Posted by Strummer
1 in 8" twist for the .223 not only for dropping reds but for all purposes. I load both the 169grain and 55 grain projectiles in my 1 in 8" twist Tikka and both shoot equally as well and by happy chance almost to the same place. So far the .223 has been shouted down by other inhabitants of the rifle cupboard when a walk in the bush is considered but I really should include a load with a hunting projectile as well. I expect it will shoot just as well and likely to much the same place.
Regards Grandpamac.
Clearly that should be 69 grains. The 8" twist would not stretch that far. Note to self: Read through posts more carefully in future.
If going to shoot heavy for cal leave it long or only minimal shortening....not starting with a lot of horspower to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strummer
That said I am going to take a couple of inches off mine so it will fit under the seat in the boat.
So I chimed in on this thread at the start and haven't read much in between.
T3 cut down to about an inch over legal length and a dpt on it. Have taken it out the last few trips, head and neck shots no problem out to 150m.
Discovered why I stopped using it after taking a chest shot at 120m (in the dusk on private land) it had only gone 30m but no exit wound made it hard to find.
So my take on it, 223 is fine for deer.... just be patient and wait for the right shot or let the animal walk (hard but as the years go by I find it easier)
1:8, heavy projectile over 75grn, 20”. Breathes new life into the .223.
