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Humour me here, I'm bored at work and know nothing about this. Would 300blackout/subsonics/suppressor be good for hunting goats in dense bush? Maximum distances 100 metres, most shots taken at less than 50 metres. Quietness would be a big benefit in some of the places I shoot. Would be using factory ammo.
Search for some of Tikka's hunting reports. He is slaying animals with his 300blackout, subsonic and supersonic.
what kind of rifle I'm running a mae on 223 ar it makes a lot of difference to noise as its short barreled I just get a lot of gas coming out the ejection port which is not ideal being a lefty
I used to hunt fallow in similar forest conditions and 300aac was AOK for the job. Though I doubt you need a round that big for goats at short distance. I guess you are thinking more about the noise than the slug.
perfect for the job. it's about the only round you can easily get factory subs for anyway.
One thing I can is there is if using subs for hunting you really need to reload to get best performance and accuracy. Here in NZ we are limited to a couple of decent subsonic projectiles that work well on deer are the Lehigh Defence https://www.oceania-defence.com/shoo...h-bullets.html and one of the guys on this forum that makes a cast 151gr Hollow Point he also sells them on TM.
Another thing to consider is a lot of range work with load development and knowing your bullet drop for every batch you reload as it can be out 30fps-70fps from batch to batch. Angled shots makes a big difference with subs as well.
I'm running a rebarreled bolt gun as my main gun instead of a AR platform and no longer using my 10/22 or my Sako 270win. I use mine with a dog for culling goats and pigs when walking into my main deer hunting area without the nearby deer knowing a thing. Knock over a deer or several and cull my way back to the truck.
The 300 blackout doesn't need a long barrel because it burns the powder within the first 9" of the barrel. So you can have a compact and quiet gun.
Any good quality suppressor will work.
Hunting in thick bush you need a open line of fire, any branches and sticks will deflect the bullet a bit or a lot. Shooting goats with big heavy bullets will pass straight through on broadside shots, three with one shot is the best I've done. So you really do need to know what's behind like rocks to ricochet on and on the odd head shot I've had bullets ricochet at 90 degree angles.
They are not the cheapest gun to setup and run but you can have a lot of fun with it and see some spectacular shots once all sorted and like everything it's the nut behind the butt with the right shot placement and projectile choice not the gun and caliber as there's guys doing the same with 7.62x39, 308win and 44mag etc but the 300 whisper/ 300 blackout was purposely built to run subs and supers.
April/May NZ Hunter has an article on this very subject
May have to buy it. Cheers!Quote:
Originally Posted by WillB
I bought a Ruger American ranch for the job NI bush and goats - top option as it has 16.5 " barrel threaded 5/8 x24 so threw a Mae can on it - went out there and they had a over-run from some testing they did for the nz army. Robust little bugger.
If you go the Ruger way you need to stabilise the fore end and the trigger needs lightening and polishing to get it shmeck.
Attachment 69085 here's the rifle and Mae surpressor v a hardys
My go to sub like @tikka is Leigh high 196 maximum expansion rounds - expensive for the pill but be warned brutal. Belmont now have a nice hp 130 and Barnes tax-Tx 110's are awesomely fast and my choice for supersonics accuracy wise.
If you're looking for a whole rig let me know as for the right dollars I might be convinced to part with it. Otherwise I completely thumbs up the Mae for ruggedness. If you want light go dpt.
CD
I run Roberts 151grn cast subs through my 7.62x39mm at subsonic velocity with great results for the limited use I have for it...head shooting my wild house muttons at 40-50 yards,no mess no fuss no bother and no exit either. running load through charts using 150 grn jacketed flat nose hollow point as nearest thing I can find...it says dead on at 25 and 50 yards with 8" drop at hundy....... I wouldnt hesitate to poke one into goat broadside on at hundy yards,and with the measly amount of Trail boss powder Im using they are very quiet through a gunworks spartan can.
@tikka how much did rebarrelling set you back? I have a 223 xbolt that I was thinking about changing to 300 but after looking around it seemed as much as a new Ruger.
It was something like $1100 with a halfcock bolt safety and threaded for a ODL can, quite dear for a 12" 1:7 s/s barrel but I've more than $1100 worth of meat with it. There would probably be other gunsmiths around that would do it cheaper, it was just timing with who could put it together first. I bought the doner rifle dirt cheap on TM and had it sent straight to the gunsmith to start the work and was only waiting on the suppressor for fitting to barrel and barrel crown/thread work. I really wanted a stainless steel rifle less cleaning when hunting.
Nearly finished new load development with the Lehigh Defence 168gr CF as there's no more 194gr ME left in the country and just started Roberts 151gr cast HP, so back down the range tomorrow testing again. So early days yet before I start knocking animals over with them.
If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a sub rifle just use a decent .308 Win the standard barrel twist will stabilise the 151HP cast bullet at 1050 fps mine has a 1:13" twistQuote:
Originally Posted by MightyBoosh
loaded with 8.5 grains of Trail Boss shoots 12mm groups at 50 metres and 30mm at 100,
You will not save weight or bulk with a factory rifle in 300 BLK they are build on the same action, you should be able to pickup a good SH .308 on TM and get a DPT can fitted for less
than the cost of a rebarrel, if you run it with cast bullets the barrel will last forever.
Definitely a caliber on my to try list, the Ruger is the way to go, I've been quoted as low as 900 new for one so much cheaper than a rebarrel. Even if you factor in a Timney!!
Remember that true flite makes a short suppressor barrel ( under 17")for a bit cheaper than the full length one. Take that into consideration when getting a quote done.
The good thing about going down a standard shortened 308win path for subs is if shooting subsonic isn't your thing, you're still got a 308win bushpig for normal bush hunting use and easy enough to resell.Quote:
Originally Posted by shooternz
look forward @tikka to hearing how you get on with the 2 types of bullets
you probably know this already but i will mention it - make sure ALL copper fouling is out of the barrel if you want the best from cast.
R.
Yes roger that on copper fouling.
Just got back from the range testing the Lehigh 168gr CF and the 151gr cast HP.
Getting sub MOA at 100m with the Lehigh 168gr CF/ 9.1gr of ADI AR2205 with a 2.250 OAL at 1024fps and a ES of 8fps. All good for now just need to test a distance once I get the 151gr cast sorted.
Quite impressed with the 151gr cast HP, the first couple of 5 shot groups I got 1" at 60m but still need a bit of play around with seating, I also had to weight the cast bullets into 3 different batch's as they were 3gr out at most. More testing for the next few days while the weathers calm and should be ready to kill some critters. Another thing its seems bit quieter than the heavy weight 194gr + projectiles.
cheers @tikka
i like the sound of 8fps ES . . . look forward to hearing more on your progress with cast
R.
I'm way out of touch, but I shelved my sub sonic because it sucked. Pretty hopeless rifle compared to a .223 or any other centrefire high velocity rifle.
I was given some Leigh bullets to try, and unfortunately to be honest I haven't. Apparently these change the game considerably, making the subs act like full power rounds. One day I'll get around to trying them, but in reality I don't have much need for subs.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...he-rifle-7494/
Shame as I like the concept, but a silenced .223 isn't much louder and is far more impressive in comparison.
Kj
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooternz
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimjon
Very interesting comments! Subsonic .308 for bush/close/goat work, and regular rounds for deer should I ever get the opportunity. The only subsonic rounds I can find for sale in NZ are Lapua 200g. I would probably buy a Tikka (yes, boring) which has a twist of 1/11. Would this work or is it bad idea?
Definitly get a tikka. Really easy to swap mags from subsonic to supersonic ammo.
Make your own subsonic ammo. Trailboss and shooternz (?) 151 gr cast projectiles or get the brasso out and buy some lehigh subsonic projectiles.
1 in 11" twist should stabilise 150gr projectiles. You only need the really fast twist for the 200+ gr projectiles.
Get a scope with a BDC reticle so you can use the hash marks for the subsonic loads.
I worked up sub sonic loads in my 708, they are about 15" low at 100yds.
cheers stug. what i should have said in my last post is that i don't reload and it's not something i want to get in to right now. never enough time! hence my interest in the lapua rounds.
https://www.guncity.com/308-lapua-20...-rounds-313906
Lapua Ammo 308 Winchester Subsonic 200 Grain Full Metal Jacket Box of
Forget about the lapua round other than for plinking and paper target. Your preys deserve better than that , ie Lehigh or cast consciensously reloaded.
Really Friwi? For close range goats? There is another thread going on about 22LR for the same purpose. If you stand by your comment, then fair enough. I'm learning and don't want maim anything.
I tried many combinations of bullets, then I went mad scientist and drilled hollow points in them, cut flutes in the jackets, used cast bullets, tried shooting them loaded backwards....you name it, I tried it....except the Leigh bullets, which someone on this forum generously gave me to try, but by that stage my enthusiasm for this rifle had run out.
My conclusion was sub sonics will kill, great for head shots if you hit brain, but average at anything else. For lung shots, expect a long find as the animal will run a long way before dying (similar, but slightly further than a bow shot animal, but with way less blood to follow).
Not trying to burst any bubbles, but in reality - unless you were poaching and didn't want anyone to know you're shooting there (no I'm not condoning), I'd choose a high velocity rifle any day over a sub sonic.
cheers kimjon. do you think the same applies to 300BLK? btw, i'm no poacher. one of the farms i shoot on has a few goats on it. the owner absolutely doesn't want any loud guns being fired in case it upsets the livestock. his land, his choice. he asked me to clear out a load of turkeys. i said OK, i'll bring my 12g semiauto. he said no, so i have been limited to thinning them out with my 22LR. get half a dozen each time, then they move on.
Yeah same applies to 300blk. Totally understand the want/need for a quiet rifle, I made mine for similar reasons...plus they are just so dam cool! It's just the reality didn't live up to the hype.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyBoosh
over blown hype . . but the reverse is also true . . people put a little effort into it and then give-up with " the cartridge is useless etc "
subsonic shooting requires great care and patience, in the loading, bullet selection etc and especially in the shooting, when not to shoot, what are the limits . . you need your A game or you are going to be disappointed.
if you put the hard yards in, that means time, cash and learning, you will be more than a 50yrd shooter of subs . . success can be had at hundreds of yards . . if your up to it
If, you want, we can organise a weekend where I will bring my rifle all set up with the 150 gr HP sub, and you do the shooting and I'll do the spotting and ranging for you, and you will be able to see for yourself what are the results on those goats.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyBoosh
Pm me if you are interested.
https://www.facebook.com/hardcoreout...4801614601393/
Check out this video from Hardcore outdoors Face book page show the 151HP in action
That looks to have potential. First shot was the sub sonic, the second two shots where full power loads super sonic.Quote:
Originally Posted by shooternz
I'd want to shoot a dozen or so animals before drawing too many conclusions though.
I have shot more than 40 including a few fallows, with 300 black/ whisper ,308 sub and 458 socom.
It is nowhere near as broad experience as tikka, but I start to have an idea of what can be done or not with them.
I will happily accept an offer like that from anyone :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
Subsonic hunting rounds certainly do seem to split opinion! What I'm concluding is that they can be used for hunting under some circumstances, but probably best left to the experienced hunter/reloader.
Spent a few hours flinging subs at paper,balloons and steel yesterday and today. Shot a mix of Hornady 220gr RN, 208gr A-max, 151gr HP cast, Lehigh 168gr CF and the only supersonics 125gr BT, just under 300 for the weeks and 450km driving to the range.
To the testing, the Lehighs 168gr CF are very accurate with multiple first round hits on 4"-5" balloons at different angles from 6 degrees to 48 degrees out to 250m and centre hits on a 10" steel plate at 300m and 400m.
151gr HP cast bullets were so so in accuracy but I would be happy taking a goat deer pig out to 150m as I was getting first round hits on balloons to 160m. I was getting an ES of 22 with ADI AR2205 powder, have been trying different seating depths with little gain. May need to try Trailboss but its accurate enough for bush hunting range.
Lehigh 168gr Controled Fracturing
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...psibivc4cs.jpg
5 shot 100m accuracy, easy sub MOA
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...pst3dnyhyy.jpg
100m cast 151gr Hollow Point,
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...psemq4pk6i.jpg
https://datebest.net - visit website and win smartphone!
Thanks to the spammer for bumping this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
Are those cast loads subs or supers @tikka ?
I tried to develop a subsonic load with the 151gr cast HPs with 2205 in the Howa I had and it was complete garbage.
Velocity spread in excess of 50fps and groups were at best 3” at 100m.
I’m thinking of trying another 300blk and wondering if a Tikka build might be the better way to go than another Howa.
Subsonics and have got 2 other mates rem 700 300BLK using them too. I use AR2205 powder only and not needed to use anything else.
In the 308win I use Trailboss with the 151gr HP cast.
Dredging up an old one but that's very impressive. I have never shot my subs beyond 100 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
