Thread: 45/70 Subsonic

Originally Posted by homebrew.357

My Marlin 3030 has a micro grooved barrel, is your g/gun the same, I`m trying cast in my 3030 but not much success with a 150gr gc bullet. I think a 170gr would better, may have to ream out the mould a bit. In the light loads with the 45-70 are you using a filler or wad to keep the small powder charge by the primer. I only like to have two powders, 3031 for my .308, 3030, 45-70 and black also for the 45-70 so there's no mistakes. And it`s so much fun when I`m at the range with my Sharps and there`s all the semi autos in .223 with a big muffler on the end and I let rip with a black powder load,

Yes a micro groove Barrel @homebrew.357

i will run thru what i do with a new rifle to use cast in and maybe something will be of use to you .. . you probably know it already.

with a micro groove barrel especially bullets should be 1 or 2 thou at least over groove diameter, some molds your fcked before you start if theyre under sized.
your choice of alloy plays a part in bullet diameter.
mine go thru a .311 sizer when lubing, using gas checks.
choose the correct mold design for the 30/30 in lever actions.
personally i like a bullet that slightly engraves the rifling on closing the bolt or lever.
a light crimp for hunting bullets in tube mags . . .

i have used the 150grn. LEE .308 mold in the past but that was in my preMarlin days . . . the mold was good to use, cast good bullets and it went as well as any others in my Brno, same 1-10 twist.

longer heavier bullets are my first choice . . they dont work any better than shorter bullets but they just look right to me.


Yes to the filler with light loads . . which is something else to keep in mind, the amount of filler can be a factor in group size.
good news is using 7.0grns in my 30cal subsonic loads i get 1000 loads per pound of powder . . . with good accuracy . . but not for the sloppy reloader, a double charge things could get real ugly.

that black powder ( known as Holy Black to some ) will get peoples attention when it goes off . . . my first 45/70 was a Martini rebarreled with a Hawkins barrel that came with a swag of Black Powder ammo, liked firing the ammo but didnt like the mess/cleanup later . . . one of the worst guns i have owned with a terrable stock that smacked me in chops every time i fired it, a valueable lesson learned, stock design does matter.

just thinking on the way home @homebrew.357 that i forgot to mention the M dies . . . do you use those for reloading the 30/30, you'll have a flaring tool for your .45/70

i like them and have a set for the .30/30 and .308, its those little extra steps that dont add much to accuracy by themselves but added together make a difference, especially as the range gets out there.

what kind of accuracy are you getting with yours at the moment ?

R.

My bullets come out at .312/13 dia and size to .310 , I found I was squashing the nose with g/c, lube sizing and chambering a round the bullet would be pushed into the case, or jam in the chamber, case neck to big. My new way was just seat the g/c, then size nose first and then lube, about 4/6" spread at 100m with 27/29 grs 3031. I have not tried cast in my .308 yet, something to look at, and I have just made a new bullet mould for my Sharps with better lube groves, I won`t know the weight till I do some casting, the 45-70 is easy to load, I have not got any dies for it, but still can load them up.
, Another mould.

@homebrew.357 are you using the LEE 312 mold meant for the 7.62x39 ? .312/13 seems on the generious side for a .308 barrel, folklore has it that sizing down can only have negative effercts on accuracy.

if it was me i would buy a 309 170grn LEE mold just to try . . . theyre a good hunting style bullet and ya can never have enough molds.

its been my experience that powder selection can make or break cast bullet shooting, jacketed are a lot more tolerant . . . as an example my Marlin .30/30 is a 1.5MOA shooter at 1600fps with SR4759.
but thats discontinued, any other powder i have tried its a 3.0MOA shooter . . not that important because i only really wanted more smack as an option over the subs out to 100ish yards, still a good example that you only need to get one thing slightly wrong with cast and accuracy goes south.

look forward to seeing the results of the new .45 mold.

an old mate of mine for years refused to use dies, mind you it would have cost him a fortune to buy them for the weird n wonderful old military rifles he had all over his house, under beds, in every cupboard, behind every door.

a day off coming up on this Saturday, forecast is rubbish but i will try to get out for a shot n try the jacketed 350s on paper . . . definitely go varminting in the morning and try for a Goat in the afternoon if everything lines up.

R.

The mould I have is the Lee d/c, C309-160-R, Dia .309, 160gr, My lead,(pipe) is mixed with a bit of linotype and tin to harden it up a bit, could go a bit harder to see if it casts to size and stop them squishing the nose. Could use then in my .303 if I start loading for it and will be looking at Lee R E A L and round ball mould in .45 cal for my Hawken plains rifle as I have made a new barrel for it, needs some range time to see where it is shooting. All this shooting is a heap of fun and come September I will go bush for a few days to try and get something for the pot.
, The Hawken speaks loud!!

tried the 350grn. Hornadys in the weekend at 80yds. followed by some 405s . . . a little crosswind



surprised at the vertical stringing of the 350s . . . fired the 405s straight away to see if it was the forend bedding or shooting position that was the problem, nope, the usual group shape, around 2.0MOA

Fallow shot this evening at about 70yds

Stringing is normal for many marlins as the barrel gets hot.Mine does it the first three go into 1.25 inch and then they start to climb but with a 45 70 not many shots used when hunting

leg/shoulder removed for a look . . .





shoulder broken, lungs hit . . . surprisingly went 20yds before piling up.

man a hole that big can sure let a lot of daylight in!!!!!

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

man a hole that big can sure let a lot of daylight in!!!!!

ya know when you can look inside an animal youve done some real damage @Micky Duck . . . itll be interesting to see if that performance keeps up as the range moves out.

R.

Originally Posted by john m

Stringing is normal for many marlins as the barrel gets hot.Mine does it the first three go into 1.25 inch and then they start to climb but with a 45 70 not many shots used when hunting

the stringing is surprising because its never done it before with cast . . . i have used 85 shots on paper sofar so i would have expected it to happened before now . .. but strange thigs happen when shooting groups, especially with a new rifle.

all of my shots have been slow fire without a rest period to cool down because the gun will be mostly used for Goat shooting with long strings of fire . . . im not after great groups, i want to know what it will do in the field.

the weather here is definitely on the cool side so no worries with hot barrels with the sub load ( 12.5grns.) even after 20 shots at slow fire.

the interesting thing is not so much the length of the group but the width . . . less than .5inch

anyway . . . its only of interest . . i won't be using them in the field.


i will be dropping off the Marlin at the Gun Smiths next week to get a suppressor fitted.

R.

Hi Rossi, Looks like it`s on the money in more than one way, on target and a LOT of lead poison there as well. Had a shooting session with my Hawken plains .45 muzzle loader and the Sharps at 50m, the M/L was about 2 1/2- 3" high with a patched round ball and 50/55gr 3f b/p , grouped quite well for a home made barrel, just needs a lot more shooting to polish it up. The Sharps was about the same with 65gr 3f black/p and a 405gr bullet at 50m and as I have made a new back sight my have to use a higher front one to bring it down a bit. I had a go at casting bullets with my new mould, not to bad, came out at 410gr, so will be loading some up to see how they go.
, Look good for hunting.
, Plenty of lube groves.
, The Hawken .45 p r b 50m.
, The Sharps, first group 6 ok holed, second, aimed a bit lower.

outstanding @homebrew.357 look forward to hearing how you get on hunting with the new mold/bullet


ordered a 25MOA picatinny rail for the Marlin today from Waitaki Engineering . . . then the 3-10 Leupold Mk4 will go on top . . getting there slowly