Thread: 45/70 Subsonic

Well Rossi, as it was mothers day yesterday should we all presume that you conducted these experiments in the bath with your missus, good to know you maintained focus despite potential distracting factors !!

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Well all my advanced secrets exposed ! The tape enhances accuracy by holding the focus on the scope in the same place and the plumbing fitting is the end result of a great deal of experimentation so no scoffing from anyone please. In unmodified original form the fore-stock is held on by a silly pin brazed to the barrel. The fore-stock holds the barrel onto the action. I shortened the fore-stock and attached the plumbing fitting with casting resin which also fills out the hollow in the short piece of f stock left. This let me have the maximus sit back as far as possible and also allows the rifle to be quickly assembled or disassembled depending on the urgency of the situation prevailing at the time. One last secret is that the but-plate is modified and held on with a spring allowing a stash of ammo to be kept inside the stock for emergencies like when a Mob is encountered.

Well it certainly works!. You have a bit of dicing and slicing to do there by the looks of it.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I have been considering my answer before putting anything to print here rossi. For a start Elmer would approve of those Metplats. For us to have a definitive answer I think we need to go 'Cap in Hand' to Bill 999 on the first page of this thread and get some of his 500grainer's and Hollowpoint them unless he has some he's prepared earlier and is just waiting for us to ask / kneel / beg / prostrate ourselves before him etc. (which I am willing to do if required) for a comparative test.
What I have noticed with my 44 and the 300grn XTP is that if I shoot a hare at any range out to 120metres there is a loud Wohck sound as the poor creature is dramatically flattened and lays without a single twitch or movement. Often in a rigid tense unrelaxed stricken pose in death. But the same projectile on a pig can do very little. For example two wild pigs shot in the neck just behind the head with the bullet passing just above the spine ran off with heads hanging down and unable to lift them because the muscles and ligaments had been cut. One needing shot again and the other a knife behind the front leg.
I thought 'bugger this' I'll drill the Hollowpoints out a bit more with a drill bit in the case trimmer, but what horrible dry hard- to- cut stuff it is. Not what I expected for a low velocity pistol bullet. The bullets don't mushroom or even toadstool more like a 'shaggy ink cap' than a Porcini.
So for a start we need to know what the recipe is for the lead in Winchesters wonderful 22 subsonics, procure some 450 grain HP's in that lead and compare them to your 'Elmers Delights'. Looking at the Outlaw State HP's they have mushroomed really well, with a much bigger frontal area than a big metplat.

strange as it may seem Moa i dont want an expanding bullet, for what i want to do with the animals i target at the range i want to shoot out to there is no advantage . . . i will leave that in your capable hands, i just havent got the time needed to do it justice . . . but i look forward to your results as i am sure those watching this thread will as well.

R.

It certainly does strike me as strange rossi and more than that may I here express my genuine heart felt disappointment that the joyous youthful desire for experimentation and advancement you once held in your breast has drained from you like the used bathwater on mothers day (this is a reference to an earlier reply for anyone reading this post in isolation) All I can do is hope that the spark is not fully extinguished.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Attachment 87652It certainly does strike me as strange rossi and more than that may I here express my genuine heart felt disappointment that the joyous youthful desire for experimentation and advancement you once held in your breast has drained from you like the used bathwater on mothers day (this is a reference to an earlier reply for anyone reading this post in isolation) All I can do is hope that the spark is not fully extinguished.

Moa ya rascal, i shall try to explain . . . i thought you would have guessed i am a Zealot and a folower of the only true prophet Elmer Keith & his disciple Ross Seyfield of Big Bore handgun fame . . those who use hollowpoints are heretics and should be cast out into the wilderness as were the the lowly british infidels of DumDum infamy

bit of a ramble here . . .

the pros and cons of hollowpoints vrs BigFlatPoints at sub speed . . to me . . & this is opinion not facts . . hollowpoints are for close range use, they are a negative at distance and lesson the properties of the Big Meplat . . my interest is to push the range out to 200-300 yards with subs using cast lead bullets . . . i have no interest with high tech / expensive bullets.
for i dont know how many years now i have been shooting out past 300yrds with .22 subs & sub .30calibers & .45s up close - i have tried hollow points, Big, small, deep ones, split nose bullets, SWC, all sorts . . . and eventually decided they arent for me . . . now i am trying heavier .45 bullets n the .45/70 which so far look like the answer . . for me . . but its early days.
my style of hunting is to pass on tricky shots, i will let the animal walk . . so i don't need the extra knockdown power or insurance of a hollow point if things don't go right at close range . . plus my hit list has only lightly built animals, no pigs with shields to cause me problems. if i did have swine on the menu my choice of bullet would be different.
it is early days . . . started with the 405s and in the last few weeks onto paper patching the 340s to see if the techeque has anything to offer, it does, i am keen now to run with that for awhile . . . but . . i dont chase the Goats or Deer that often, once a month or even less, any meat is mostly given away.

my main interest for the last couple of years is LR varmint shooting, i love it . . i get out on the paddocks at least 2-3 times a week if i can which means i also spend a lot of time reloading to feed the rifles as well . . and bless my partner she encourages me to do it.

so Moa it will be up to you to run with the HollowPoints . . . i hope you take up the challenge & report back on your findings

R.

Make sure you keep the LR varmint faith going Rossi, interesting thread though, I had a 44 mag once and loved it. Think it kindled a fondness for slow moving large diameter bullets.
I think the discussion on big slow moving lead vs small high speed has been around for centuries and probably always will be.

Originally Posted by viper

Make sure you keep the LR varmint faith going Rossi, interesting thread though, I had a 44 mag once and loved it. Think it kindled a fondness for slow moving large diameter bullets.
I think the discussion on big slow moving lead vs small high speed has been around for centuries and probably always will be.

no worries there @viper . . . hitting small targets at the edge of your ability is addictive . . . in some of the best country.
i was out n about yesterday with the heavy barrel Quad using subs - today it was the .223AI - tomorrow if all the stars lineup i plan on taking the .222 out for a run, if the weather gets worse the 6mm - there is nothing better than that . . . to me.

why wouldnt ya have a fondness for big bullets . . its like big country girls

my biggest problem is time . . . i dont have enough of it

And God so loved the man, that on the sixth day he created the Chainsaw and Gunpowder, and he saw that it was good!
Today it was, as though another hand guided mine... ( No this is about religious enlightenment you perverts) to the keys and I made a remarkable discovery. In the same way as when God gave the stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments to Moses (John Moses Browning that is) I was given enlightenment when I read 'The Gospel Of Glen Fryxell' translated from the original Hebrew texts. Glens Gospel can be read by searching the following on Google 'Cast Hollowpoints the next Generation' by Glen E Fryxell.
Repent thy sins Rossi and cast the flat point no more. Elmer Keith is a disciple but not a Messiah

With all this talk of Zealots, Prophets, disciples and infidels from rossi and keeping the faith from viper may I humbly suggest that you two both go to YouTube and watch/listen to 'The Dead South' and their song 'In Hell I'll be In Good Company'

Bravo Moa . . . well done, you are a scholar and almost ( but close ) to being a poet, i like your style

i remember when i found this site . . . back in the day . . . it was a a wahoo moment, at last real information

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,

and thats when i started fcking around with hollowpoints in earnest . . . damm you LASC

now i have always said its my opinion etc etc . . . and i do think Elmer strayed from the true path for awhile, now in hindsight its obviously the devils temptation at work . . . DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE, there are only tears to be had there and years of wandering in the desert . . . if you go subsonic LR . . HPs at close range or high velocity is a different kettle of fish, which should be eaten on Fridays

one last word of warning . . . when you feel your hand being guided be doubly on guard, its most likely the devils work . . say these words out loud 3 times " Elmer is my protector, i shall not stray from the true Path "
as soon as you can paint a cross over your front door in blood . . the neighbours will be alarmed but don't worry, you'll be the one laughing the next morning after the angels have done their nights work.

R.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

With all this talk of Zealots, Prophets, disciples and infidels from rossi and keeping the faith from viper may I humbly suggest that you two both go to YouTube and watch/listen to 'The Dead South' and their song 'In Hell I'll be In Good Company'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9FzVhw8_bY

QUID PRO QUO my friend rossi. I fear you may have bested me in this exchange.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

QUID PRO QUO my friend rossi. I fear you may have bested me in this exchange.

no way brother . . . your holding your own

i was driving back from the farm this arvo thinking its a very good thing for this thread if you have 2, or even better, a few shooters trying to accomplish different things with this cartridge.
it was always my intention to keep this thread going over time as new developments occurred . . . so i hope that you do stay on hollowpoints for awhile Moa and see how they work for your style of hunting/shooting and report back here, you never know i might even turn to the darkside if your results are convincing.

R.

Originally Posted by rossi.45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9FzVhw8_bY

brillant, loved "that bastard son"

Moa hunter and Rossi, love the banter this is the way the forum should operate. Everyone one has their opinions and ideas just love the way you are having a go at each other without any offence or bad feelings.

Think a 45/70 single shot will be the next big purchase...