6.5 grandel

Pommy, I know bugger all about the genesis of the Grendel, when you say it was developed for long range AR-15 purposes, was that for military or sporting applications do you think? The Wikipedia on it is a bit limited. When I say sporting, I’m thinking more target type sports rather than hunting. As someone who shoots proper long range targets with it, what is your view on its max effective range on our deer species?

This tells you a bit about the origins and intended purpose: 6.5 Grendel - alexanderarms.com.

I'd say 250-300m for deer. A 7.62x39 is generally considered to be a 150m-200m deer gun. The Grendel moves a much higher BC bullet at a touch higher speed, extending the effective range. For smaller game such as wallabies & goats, I'd say it's good for as far as you feel you're able to get good shot placement.

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

Easy tiger! Have a bit of light-hearted banter why not, doesn’t do anyone any harm once in a while.

Yes yes yes and yes I know all that... of course I do. But the reality remains that for most cartridges within conventional hunting ranges sub 250m BC is largely a minor consideration. Some would say largely irrelevant. It’s only when we stretch things out a little, that BC and retained velocity starts to count as a significant factor in the killing equation.

I’ve killed more goats, deer and antelope with a poor BC 6mm soft point than most blokes will shoot with all their rifles in 5 lifetimes... big boast! But true. Fuck knows, a few thousand by now. And I will continue to do so without even thinking about BC, ft-lbs or fps, all I am concerned about is MOA. I know it does the job, no need to work myself up about any metrics that might not be as quite as good as something else. Its me that I need to concentrate on, not the BC.

The only rifle I own that I regularly use a high BC bullet for is the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is the only one I shoot at animals with past 500-600m. I started to use a high BC bullet in my 308 and then just the other day I said hang on a minute, why am I shelling out my hard earned on flash bullets for a rifle I’m only going to use in the woods? So I stopped that folly there and then.

So in the context of this debate - the Grendel compared to other stuff, and will the Grendel do the job, I think BC is largely irrelevant like it is in the 7.62x39 or 30-30 context. Its a conventional short range cartridge. You don’t need high BC for that.

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Don't let practical common sense get in the way of a perfectly good argument dammit!

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Don't let practical common sense get in the way of a perfectly good argument dammit!

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I love arguing. Unfortunately sometimes I'm wrong!

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Originally Posted by PommyMcPomFace

This tells you a bit about the origins and intended purpose: 6.5 Grendel - alexanderarms.com.

I'd say 250-300m for deer. A 7.62x39 is generally considered to be a 150m-200m deer gun. The Grendel moves a much higher BC bullet at a touch higher speed, extending the effective range. For smaller game such as wallabies & goats, I'd say it's good for as far as you feel you're able to get good shot placement.

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Hmm. Some of the stuff in that article is exaggerating the round's capability.

"For extreme accuracy, formidable terminal ballistics and long range applications, the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms is unbeatable."

Cobblers.

Anyway, looking at the ballistics, I'd go with a 2000fps minimum for a 125gr pill, so that's around 250m so yeah, seems like the experienced Grendel shooters are on the money.

See what you mean about the 7.62x39... I've learnt today that the Grendel is clearly in the next class up from the Soviet.

I've asked the other cuz what bolt action he's got a Grendel in. I suspect it will be a Ruger. Want to know what he's done with it so far this deer season.

The other thing to consider with the Grendel case is it is inherently accurate.

The 22, 6.5 & 30 Grendels I have built are stupid accurate, whether bolt guns or AR uppers.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-barrel-37192/

Its a fantastic little case, but it is just that a little case, you can't expect miracles from it :)

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

The other thing to consider with the Grendel case is it is inherently accurate.

The 22, 6.5 & 30 Grendels I have built are stupid accurate, whether bolt guns or AR uppers.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-barrel-37192/

Its a fantastic little case, but it is just that a little case, you can't expect miracles from it :)

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Greg,
What actions have you used to build the 6.5G bolt guns on?

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Originally Posted by Mathias

Greg,
What actions have you used to build the 6.5G bolt guns on?

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A Stolle Panda, single shot benchrest rifle, a Rem 700, mag feeding was frustrating but sorted, mucking around with a 6PPC Tikka at the moment also a Zastava ex 7.62 x 39

The Grendel seems to have been developed sa a candidate military round for use in the AR, to "take back the infantry half kilometer" in response to a specific need somewhere. However in trials it lost out to the 6.8SPC which hasn't turned out good enough to establish a niche between 5.56 and 7.62. For heavy hitting at close range, ther is a 50 Beowulf which also hasn't established yet. (as I read it off the interweb) So, the patent holders demoed its capability as a mid range target round, in competition with the 6mmPPC and you see beautiful bench like creations on the net, shooting special scenar 123gr bullets.

Anyway, the 500m aspiration meant using the highest feasible bullet weight which I believe is around 123gr. The BC of my 120gr 6.5 ballistic tips is almost as good as my 140gr 7mm BT. But the lower velocity places a limit, specially on expansion for hunting which requires good terminal performance. For the infantry, paper and gong shooting it doesn't matter if it arrives at 1500 fps and doesn't expand but for goats and such small deer it does. That's why people are tempted into 100gr bullets I presume, but then you lose the wind capability and you're back to why not get a 6mmPPC with a fast twist (not easy to come by).

Comparing just the wind drift at 5m/s
7mm08 140gr BC G1 0.485 MV 2820fps (22" barrel)
6.5Gren 120gr BC G1 0.458 MV 2200fps (16" bbl light load for unfired brass)
Range ... 6.5 Gr .... 7mm08
100m .... 3.4cm ..... 2.6cm
200m .... 14cm ..... 10cm
300m .... 34cm ..... 24cm
400m .... 63cm ..... 45cm
500m .... 102cm .... 73cm

I got my Grendel for hunting smaller deer like sika but only up to 300m because when I looked back over 5 years with the 7mm08 I had only ever shot a couple beyond that but I wanted a lighter shorter rifle. The loopy trajectory and increased wind drift should be just fine up to 200m and manageable with care out to 300. But to do that, I need to push the envelope of the Grendel's capability: heaviest bullets, most powder, maximum technology and range practice to get accuracy for shot placement. You can stretch the specs of a 308 with 10% or 20% heavier bullets, longer barrel, nuclear powder charge, but with the Grendel you're already there just to get started. I'm thinking it will be a good cartridge, within the limited expectations I've set for it.

If i could find a LH Zastava 39 bolt think id a have a 6.5 G thank god i cant so my bank wont get cranky at me
Seem a cool wee round the 6.5G

Great read..... I just ordered a Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel and whats interesting is the people with actual experience rate this little round highly for good reason. For an intermediate cartridge, in a light weight rifle straight out of the box compared to it's peers; 223 / 7.62 x 39 it was a no brainer.

Bit of a hijack but how would I go about getting a 6.5 Grendel upper for my AR? Any ideas on cost?

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Originally Posted by Chur Bay

Bit of a hijack but how would I go about getting a 6.5 Grendel upper for my AR? Any ideas on cost?

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Mine cost around:

Aero upper $200
Alexander Arms barrel and bolt 2nd hand from a forum member $600
Spikes BCG $300
Aero 15" handguard $300
Standard charging handle with hi temp silicon sealant gas busted $50
JP adjustable gas block and medium length tube $160
DPT suppressor $340

Great post @Bagheera, a good demonstration on how to ensure you stay within the limits of your chosen cartridge. I’ve learned a lot today about this round, some interesting reads. Have been looking at the ARs again these past few days after the fun I had in the ‘Naki, really tempted by the idea of a Grendel upper, but disappointed to find today that it does not look like there is a manufacturer of cheap steel cased Grendel soft points like the Barnaul .223s, only FMJs and some HPs.

Gonna keep looking though, its a bit of a deal breaker for me, the ability to source cheap but reliable ammo for the semi auto because I know that when I’ve got one I just go through the stuff like no tomorrow.

Awesome feedback alot learnt. she how she goes in the field cheers.....