Aussies and Wapiti

What is your opinion on Australians (and other overseas hunters for that matter) being allowed to enter the Wapiti ballot this time round? Whilst FWF does a great job and deserves all the dollars they can muster up it seems a bit unfair to me that hundreds, if not thousands of Australians are still allowed to enter the ballot with no guarantee they will even be able to enter the country if they win a block. Yes, NZ hunters will be given second chance if it comes to the time but a wapiti block is the type of hunt you spend months planning to maximise your experience. Doesn't seem fair to me?

At this stage it seems to be a while off before they will be allowed to travel here.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/12...stasman-bubble

Most likely they will also be required to pay the $3100 quarantine fee which will make for a bloody expensive wapiti !!!

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If the industry had to reply solely on local hunters, then put simply, there wouldn't be a hunting industry in NZ.

Let's face it, as New Zealanders, there are many states in the US that allow us to ballot for bear, elk and other Game species. So pretty much it's a swings and roundabouts arguement.

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Originally Posted by Ditchjumper

If the industry had to reply solely on local hunters, then put simply, there wouldn't be a hunting industry in NZ.

Let's face it, as New Zealanders, there are many states in the US that allow us to ballot for bear, elk and other Game species. So pretty much it's a swings and roundabouts arguement.

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I don't disagree at all. It just seems a bit unfair that here is a perfect opportunity for kiwi hunters to have a bit more of a chance at getting in there for one year only yet they're still allowing overseas hunters to enter. It's going to be a kick in the face for people who have put in for blocks only to lose out to Australians who end up not being able to make it anyhow. If anything they should draw a line in the sand and say right, draw is 27 October. If you are an overseas hunter and you win a block then if there is no definite answer from respective governments by 15 December as to your ability to be able to enter the country for your ballot hunt then your block will be redrawn.

The way i see it and have for years all doc ballots NZers/citizens should get first crack at ALL ballots not just wapiti and what ever left over is fair game at double/triple the price. This is our land and we are giving overseas hunters the same rights.

Kiwi's first! I hear so many stories of Aussies [in particular] causing grief over the wapiti and tahr ballot. I agree, we have possibly a once only opportunity for us Kiwi's to have a an unhindered play in our own back yard, without all the grief associated with Aussies entering. So lets as the FWF to make this a Kiwi only affair this coming season. If that was the case then I'd be entering the ballot after a 25 year hiatus.

If I recall correctly from a Podcast I listened to with the FWF there is a law that simply prohibits us from denying access to overseas applicants. My guess is that although the borders are closed there is still talk of a trans tasman bubble and nothing in the law has changed therefor they need to keep the possibility open perhaps. I could be wrong and someone may recall this detail better then me. I hear you though, great opportunity for kiwis to get maximum return on our own backyard treasure. I’m in the ballot so crossing fingers and toes!

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Originally Posted by Ditchjumper

If the industry had to reply solely on local hunters, then put simply, there wouldn't be a hunting industry in NZ.

Let's face it, as New Zealanders, there are many states in the US that allow us to ballot for bear, elk and other Game species. So pretty much it's a swings and roundabouts arguement.

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I dont think that we are discussing the commercial hunting industry, which you are correct would not exist without overseas hunters. Fiordland Wapiti are not commercialised in Fiordland.
You are also correct that Kiwis can get an overseas tag, but in a lot of areas the 'Non Resident Tag' costs us more than locals and many species require the hiring of guides.

The issue that rankles me is hunters - Aussie and Kiwi hunting Fiordland before the ballot period, shooting some of the best bulls as they strip and using thermals to boot

Kiwis first in line for sure. There should be a restriction on the number of ballot spots available to the Aussies or other nationalities. - like 10% max. And there should a hefty fee attached to winning a ballot for non Kiwis, like $2-3000 ? Or more? All funds going to FWF or Tahr foundation to support future health, quality and viability of the herd.

I think the Aussies should be able to enter the ballot - if they can guarantee they will get here! If at the time of the ballot, our borders are closed, theirs are closed, then they cant enter, simple, simple. And should if for some crazy reason the borders are opened from the time of the ballot and before the ballot period, then they can stand in line waiting for a cancelled block just like we have to when they choose not to take up their allocated block cos they cant be arsed, or the weather looks a tad bit wet, or their bloody grandma's just had a hernia. If you do not have free access to our country at the time the ballot is drawn, then you're not eligible for a block. Simple.

From my understanding, not all New Zealanders who apply can get a block as it is. Why make it even harder, and why the hell give any other country FIRST choice, New Zealanders should be given first choice and opened up to foreigners ONLY if they cant fill all available blocks.

Stopped bothering cause it's at least semi rigged as it is, and I don't know "the right people"

Aussies and others do because they can, if we couldn’t we wouldn’t. Plenty of good alternative hunting in NZ, so that’s the option.The ball is in your court change the rules or put up with it.

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Stopped bothering cause it's at least semi rigged as it is, and I don't know "the right people"

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What makes you say that?

Have you applied several times to no avail?

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Originally Posted by Dicko

Aussies and others do because they can, if we couldn’t we wouldn’t. Plenty of good alternative hunting in NZ, so that’s the option.The ball is in your court change the rules or put up with it.

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Its not a dig at Aussies but i would like to see all foreigners paying a hunting fee here and also paying double or triple for a trout license. That's what all these private estates/hunting parks were set up for ??
Like $500 for ten days hunting all animals recorded and money goes to a new game animal foundation. $500 was just a figure

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Originally Posted by bigbear

Its not a dig at Aussies but i would like to see all foreigners paying a hunting fee here and also paying double or triple for a trout license. That's what all these private estates/hunting parks were set up for ??
Like $500 for ten days hunting all animals recorded and money goes to a new game animal foundation. $500 was just a figure

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Non Resident fishers do pay a surcharge on their licence to F&G. The funds are (supposedly) ring fenced for habitat enhancement. Surprising how quickly it adds up.

Big Bear, i don’t take it as a dig but purely perspective from a non Kiwi who hunts NZ a bit as a foreigner and has also lived there as well.

Personally I think most aussies would be had to buy a non residents license to hunt doc lands. I’d happily pay it.

The other way of looking at foreign hunters is that it is part of tourism and brings in foreign exchange. If trophy hunting for Tahr had not been stopped by Covid this year it would have been difficult for the Govt to cull so heavily. Difficult for a Govt to destroy a multi million dollar industry while it is fully operating.
The issue with the Fiordland waps could be solved by limiting the number of tags available to non residents. As it is, our ballot could be swamped by overseas hunters.

It took a lifetime before fish and game finally got their shit semi-together and started charging a non resident's trout license after years of crying it was too hard and it's still only $169, not nearly enough. A non resident's hunting permit for NZ DOC land is a no-brainer and it should be $500 as a minimum.

I reckon wapiti & Tahr ballots should be for Nz residents only , if Nz guides apply for a ballot & get a block they could then guide that block & take foreign hunters out , so win win , I’d be far happier about the situation knowing that kiwis come first & are not in direct competition against people that do not even live in this country & come here on budget self guided trips in the roar or rut , yes they have to pay for air fares & possibly some accommodation etc but too bad , better off having high value tourists than budget ones , If our elected officials had half a brain they would make guiding mandatory all year round .

Personally I'd like to see the new 4th period gone before over seas hunters, (both would be good gone however) Its probably an unpopular opinion, but I can see the reasons why the fwf added the extra period

I think foreign hunters should only be able to come if they bring koha
And i don't mean money
I mean some of the awesome firearms that we can see and not touch
Things that would otherwise cost too much for import from USA, Europe and Australia

The whole legal gun running system has ground to a halt
Not that it was very easy before C19

its an interesting post you put forth here , interesting to only see Dicko jump in on it from an Aussies perspective.

I personally, understand the job FWF do and agree with many points regarding this upcoming or next season regarding the covid stuff.. that should be a no brainer lol.

The thing is I agree the kiwis should have first jab at it but there has to be some allocation to spaces for Your internationals and Aussie bastards :D for an Extra cost for sure, that makes sense, even if it is an "international hunters tariff" per say in that $500 bracket.. boom bonus straightto FWF for allowing some- internationals in on the Game. an what a big game its tunring out to be. ....

Australias Sambar hunting is on a down ward spiral pretty quickly this remainder of the year , everyone ive spoke to has Tahr in their sights but perhaps isnt as aware as I of their situation also, as the Cull hasnt been publisiced in AU much at all on a broad scale.... So yer tahr ballots will be heavily Aussie influenced without any doubt next year.

The Red stags are overlooked but will not be from now on for a while, The cost to do a week or two in NZ is worth the experience alone as opposed to effort an cost travelling into remote victorian country which is being heavily culled at present... So the roar out of Ballot will be slightly busier with Aussies but not immediately.

The Waps, well if FWF keep up the great work, You wont see more Aussies in a Ballot but You will see more aussies in te Anua in February with their Thermals and 338laps.. unfortunatly.

many of the better heads may be taken prior to the Ballot blocks and that a tough one to draw a line on.

personal ethics come into it.

Im not rushing into Wap country i tell ya, for an Aussie its inviting fromthe reports but the Reality of spending 10 days in Southland alone is hardcore, let alone a mongrel 10 days hunting jungles..

anyway, following the thread..... no name callin you kiwi buggers alright... :D :P

catch yas soon ;)

Yep the February thermal hunting is the problem for Waps.
How do we prevent that ?
The other problem is how to stop the really good breeders being shot.Attachment 150702Attachment 150703

I thought FWF had banned people from hunting prior to the ballot?

I think the Wap & Tahr Ballot’s should have a limited number of spots for foreign hunters (add the Milford track as well) and they pay a premium, say double what we have to.

Sorry about the Bison photo I got the wrong file, had a phone call while I was posting and now I cant change it.
Trying to upload a series of photos on the young elk bull which is descended from Fiordland animalsAttachment 150706
Still having upload problems, anyway the bull on the right of the photo is the same bull as the 2yr old in the prior post. Genetics are 1/3rd Fiordland blood.
A big Fiordland bull that has got everything should not be shot. He should be saved as a breeder

Its not just the wap blocks we should be worried about, As i said i think there needs to be a new game animal foundation set up. The permit money goes them and they run the whole permit system on all doc land and manage all game animals. All 1080 programs and culls will need to go through the foundation with 18month notice just stay
The only thing i will say is once NZers start paying is the price will only keep going up. It might start at stay $100 season license for 12months but next minute it will be a $1000 and it will become a rich mans sport
Just my thoughts

I’d be happy to pay for a general permit PROVIDED we get a good say in matters, we already pay for ballots and Yes the Game Animal Council should take over the running of the permits, ballots.

Moa- the Stag Culture is solid down under and thats taking some effort to ackowledge this fact, without acknowledgment then they are none the wiser to the detrimental issues cause by just head hunting and particularly the amount of hunters down under outweighs the 'back log' of breeding stock thats pushing through, combined this with not only spotlighting, now thermalling in high country and " the great deer cull" , it really is a 10 year project for Hunters to do "right" by the herd as of yesterday, but with current mentalitys its only going to cause more issues or potentially to a point where the stag or deeer 'dry up' to the point it is no longer fun an worth it to drive around the high country in hopes of killen stags, or it isnt now worth walking 10k out ridges to thermal a heavily hammered herd by Fire an Cull.... then this period gives the deer a chance, less hunters less pressure and parks vic think they got them all...... hunters now genuinely interested dont shoot Spikes. Dont shoot little Stags. shoot does for meat but dont blow em away, which prior to the fires i was advocating to BLOW DOES to save the herd..... well the fire "saved" the herd, an then the Culls are happening. long story there.

HOW DO YA STOP aussies and Thermals..... whos policing it? is it a FWF "code of cunduct in the name of fair chase" that prior to leaving the Take off area a FWF "official goes through peoples Gear? honesty system doesnt work lol. event the biggest name blokes in AU , use thermals but wont publically mention it... why would they for Waps..even bigger prize.

PRIOR to the roar.... fuuuck, how do ya stop that? stop it for one , stop it for all?... descrimination between a new zealander and an australian , that could get messy...

FWF promote more Social Media posts to educate the younger or internationals on how much work an ephasis goes into the bulls for the bugle and emphasis how this practise of pre roar strippers is detrimental to the hard work of 20 years FWF etc.... its all good an well on a podcast hidden in a facebook page, but everyones on social media, alot of people type this into youtube "fiordland wapiti hunting" use these tags to express Videos that educate the cunts on whats goin on inside firodland an that it isnt a wild aussie sambar cull.... theres a very specific situation goin on here. have the big wigs express this, Gibson, Duley, Red stag timber gang, get Howie on board, Cam Speedy needs his own PR dude to just have him talk the shit and not have to personally preech it across the internet, someone else should be doin that inside of Sika foundation to get word out. whats to lose? lots to gain.

oh fuck, where do ya start....

to touch on the stag culture here, its not velvet stags like you blokes, its just hard antler.. kill em.

velvet killin of stags is hugely detrimental to a herd, look at the southern alps an you will note. its been 1960s since You guys have seen more than a odd beast here or there... looking back there was a bloody lotta deer but wayyy to many hinds, an still to this day "hind get left" an "velvet stags get smoked" ... ooo k.


i wanted to touch on something elseeee but i forgot... "heavy fines" for hunting in areas 'closed' , close the fiordland hunting area jan feb?
here no penalty for poaching , an when caught often easy easy enough to geto ff with a play dumb card.. no deterrance.

OR on the other side of the arguement, theres an aussie fella bangin on about the future of the thermals and how bad it is to fair chase hunting, calling it day light spotlighting.., i get this 100% , but its 2020, the tehcnology is over taking the oppertunities as they arnt expanding... its interesting... So do ya call Thermals fair game? everyone can have one , if ya can afford it.. if ya can afford it, well , we've seen the calibre of stags in NZ "if ya can afford" it, so what the difference? kettle of fish that one..


Yeah so i rememebered, this coming few years is going to be a huge eye opener for aussies with the fire n cull situations, goin forward if there is much oppertunity left

Your nz herds seen a smashing back then an its never been the same since, except fiordland getting there but as mentioned, alot of sweet bulls must be gettin killed an not heard about... thats been goin on since the 50s

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Originally Posted by bigbear

Its not just the wap blocks we should be worried about, As i said i think there needs to be a new game animal foundation set up. The permit money goes them and they run the whole permit system on all doc land and manage all game animals. All 1080 programs and culls will need to go through the foundation with 18month notice just stay
The only thing i will say is once NZers start paying is the price will only keep going up. It might start at stay $100 season license for 12months but next minute it will be a $1000 and it will become a rich mans sport
Just my thoughts

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yeah man i can see that happening here. we have a good area to a fiord block type permit, as u guys do in alps i guess, but have it for a little fee to go toward things, an make the period 3 month or whatever, maybe one so a more up to date idea of whats in there an who, but not a booking system per say, lots to learn from a block type approach to "limited entry hunting" you could call the national park from here on in... but now the prize is gone theres no real Special about it. unlike ya Waps in Fiord.

Same thing with Aus that $50 last few years, now with COVID the "GMA" / not foundation, govt run lollipop authority over deer huntin/ are issuing FREE hunting next year right.... right after fires, culls an all this... i bet you, i will put money on a over haul now hunting is restricted here, that it becomes a Pay for it, an pay more for it for "old historic areas" which rigns true to ya Wanaka ballot.... o much to learn from NZ with AU but au wants no bar of a introduced GAME animal or managing them....

its fucked.

Also if a game animal foundation was set up once it had any surplus money it could used to educate hunters on game management also used on these back country huts that a slowly getting pulled out cause they aren't on a great walk.

Unfortunately am not the person to take this further

Does anyone know if that wombat Greentree ever made a donation back to the rescue helicopter after it pulled him out of the hills TWICE in New Zealand? He sure seemed to get a lot of miles out of promoting the fact he's a dumbass whilst professing to be the opposite for Instagram likes

i cant speak for the fella in question but you're not assuming all Aussies are of that Calibre, are ya?
theres a young one who is basically a shadow of the man in question, he been caught once, i thnk he hunted with the fella from the Timber stag club (curley fella) on a swap hunt sika for sambar, they are the ones who will get ya waps in feb with the thermals..

Cos instagram selfies are worth so much these days, ya know..

that selfie proclaims the pinnicle of the great southern trophies, dont mind how it succumbed to the shot.

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Originally Posted by bigbear

Also if a game animal foundation was set up once it had any surplus money it could used to educate hunters on game management also used on these back country huts that a slowly getting pulled out cause they aren't on a great walk.

Unfortunately am not the person to take this further

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much like here if there is no hut, there is no want to go there.
no hutters, no hunters.
im fairly sure DoC dont give a fuck abotu your hunting recreations either

As an Australian that drew first period last year and got the call not to come the day before we were due to fly out, we pay $130 to enter the ballot and $500 to accept the block.
Roughly five times the amount New Zealanders pay if the amounts haven't changed.
I didn't enter this year as I don't think we will be allowed over there for quite some time.