I voted for blaze, but think it is irrelevant in NZ, I would never hunt during the roar, to many idiots out there, no colour will help if people are shooting on movement of a branch or shrub.
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I voted for blaze, but think it is irrelevant in NZ, I would never hunt during the roar, to many idiots out there, no colour will help if people are shooting on movement of a branch or shrub.
Yep, I have met the local wasps, and so did my dog unfortunately :(
Bees love the blue as well, but I still prefer to wear it due to not knowing of any blue animals.
I also wear a bright orange blaze cap, and have been told that I stand out like the proverbial poochs ballbag from a fair distance, even in tight bush
Fully camo for me, blue blaze hat and around this time of year (about to do this all the time) blue blaze attached to my pack. So you see blue when I got my pack on from behind.
Won't touch blaze orange, nothing in the bush is blue so that's what I choose
I'm surprised blue blaze isn't leading ahead of orange blaze given how many comments are made on how ineffective blaze orange is. That study I put up before hits the nail on the head I thought with 63% of fatal incidents involving people wearing blaze orange overseas and hunters being shot wearing it in NZ.
how would you know that the ones that were shot wearing blaze wouldn't have been shot wearing flashing lights? Most public hunting zones in the states are compulsory blaze so the number % of blaze wearers being shot will be higher. I think the faded orange blaze would be the worst thing you could wear. I think an orange and blue camo pastern would be the go.
When I was a firearms safety instructor (22 years) we received from Police each year, the reports on hunter fatalities in NZ. From memory, something like 95% of dead hunters were shot by a member of their own party, and wore green or camo. clothing. Fact. A small percentage of the shooters were "experienced" hunters, that had picked up poor habits early in their hunting careers. Fact. "Deer .243" is correct in stating that the offending shooters are not identifying their target, which is why it is so important to be identifiable. As an accident investigator I spoke to several shooters who had seen a movement, in an area where they thought deer would be found, and pulled the trigger, and shot their mate, sometimes at ranges of no more than 16 meters! Twice in my hunting career, in the days when I wore green clothing, I came across a hunter who had me in their sights and were squeezing the trigger on a movement, when they saw my "white legs" moving through the scrub. Otherwise, they were preparing to shoot solely at an object moving through the scrub. To stay alive these days, I don't hunt in the roar, and hunt on private blocks (where there should be no other hunters , but once encountered a senior member of NZDA poaching on my balloted block). And I wear brightly coloured clothing-deer and other animals are totally colour blind, so what is the point of wearing camo? Deer have very poor eyesight, but their hearing and sense of smell is hundreds of times better than ours. Fact. Wearing bright clothing certainly hasn't affected my tallies.
I wore blue last nite and the son wore orange, I got stung by wasp he didn't, Nothing else was hurt last nite.
I hate to inject myself in this issue but my customer was shot and killed by a Wellington MSC Firearms instructor under Nicole McKee which I taught for in the MSC Firearms course for almost 3 years. In getting my warrant to teach one of the questions slapped me on the face . Question #14 what should you do to avoid being mistaken as a game animal in "DIM LIGHT" conditions of the 4 questions they wanted the students to tick "wear bright color clothing" . Humm its interesting that I took the course that this test was copied off of in Colorado that I took in 1973 and the instructor Shorty Davis clearly stated that there will be a question on the test about seeing color in 'dim light ' conditions, and the correct answer is YOU DO NOT SEE COLORS IN DIM LIGHT CONDITIONS. He went into the physiology of the Rods and Cone nerves in the retina , I was the only gunsmiting student to make a 100% on that test . So why is it I come over to NZ and I miss that question , just because NZ'ers can see colors in Dim light , gee should have known better , Kiwi's have different retina's , yea right, NOT . As an instructor I have a responsibility to see that what is taught is correct. The information booklet that I presented to the head of the Wellington MSC Firearms section had no effect, as it would affect her social standing by raising a flag over the issue so that was when I passed on to Mike Spray head of MSC and Joe Green of the Firearms section of the police . In a 3 way conversation the scientific reports having been read by the all in relation to question 14 was deemed sufficient by both the police and MSC to correct the question in the test and the training if the MSC course , the one provision from the Police was that since they had to pay $5-7k for a new test, that they wait till the NEXT printing to correct the flawed answer, to which we all were in agreement to. Well hate to tell you that was 2006 its 2018 and by my calculations thats 12 years and the test question is still the same, and guess who the Woman was that took over a few months later after Mike Spray stepped down , you only get one guess ... In the interim I had a bright and intelligent young man 29 years old come into my gunsmiting shop with his hunting buddy and was wanting a rifle built which I agreed to, running short of time he stated he would be back in 6 weeks . Unfortunately Cam McDonald couldn't come back in a couple of weeks I opened the news paper up and there he was with his hat that was burnt red/ orange , NOT HI VIZ, which is commonly sold in hunting shops ! In the caption Hunter Shot in the head by Wellington Deerstalkers President and Wellington MSC firearms instructor. Here's my point I had taken the time and effort to inform the head of the Wellington MSC Firearms section , she did nothing , I then informed the head of the MSC and Police who said I was correct and did NOTHING when they said they would, then my young customer was killed by a man I had taught Firearms licensing with , and to kick ass because I raised the issue, the woman in cahrge of the Wellington MSC Firearms group refused to renew my MSC Warrant for teaching ! There have been several others killed that would have been alive NOW if HI VIZ Orange was mandatory as it was in 1969 in Kentucky which virtual eliminated all hunters shooting other hunters in a very short order . I was finally able to find a reporter to take up my cause Rebeca Quiliam who wrote for the NZ Herald. All of the issues I raised were included plus Rebeca calling the NZ school of ophthalmology in Auckland and asking the same questions I had asked before. Now heads up and ears open to what the instructor said ; as you lose the ability to see color as light dims BLUE as in HI VIS BLUE is the first color that is lost , got that ? The HI VIZ Orange is the ONLY color that was recommended in the bush, got that ? In addition I called the Search and Rescue helicopter in Wellington and asked them was was the best color to find in the bush , ORANGE , and definitely NOT BLUE. I know that this will upset some people but when doing the research in 2005-6 I called safety clothing companies and asked why Orange and Blue . The response was Orange shows up best in the bush and the Green / Blue shows up best around machinery, and that coincides with the H&S issues in the laws in the US. Now every thing I've said in these statements are based on interviews , scientific reports of experts , NOT hunters that have NOT done their scientific research and not able to point out the technical issues I've stated . Now lets add one more point when taking the color test for an eye exam what is the most failed colors ,,,,, Green and Blue . Now back to issues in NZ , I've had some hard fought discussions with the President of the Deerstalkers on this subject. His response was that they now use High Vis Orange in their Hunts course for which I commended him and thanked him. Unfortunately the next Deerstalkers magazine I got it showed two hunts course groups ...... one with Hi Viz Orange on the young folks and the other group with out a stitch of any high vis nor colored clothing . Then it got worse I was looking at all the pictures of the animals shot by their hunters ,,,, and was disappointed that NONE had a stitch of High Vis clothing on ! While doing research in 2005-6 I also came across another fact , of the 49 states that required Hi Vis hunter clothing all required Orange , only one state ALLOWED Hi Vis Green / Blue and that was Arkansas, yep the state that has the 3ed lowest IQ of the 50 states ... I'm sorry guys but even we in Kentucky thought that wearing Hi Vis Orange was akin to wearing pink panty hose while hunting and there were protest and statements of Mother may I and all the rest . But as soon as every one wore pink panty hose it didn't make any difference we all looked the same . You see the problem that most can not get their heads around is that color in nature is a means of communication between two members of a species , its used for identification , so wearing Hi Vis Orange is a communication to someone else as it is when THEY wear it also .... Its time that it be legally required for NON Water foul hunters , I'm sorry but some one that is ignorant can be taught the truth and accept it, that is the purpose of education , which as I pointed out is lacking , on the other hand the term "stupid' is some one that faced with the correct knowledge refuses to accept the truth. Its past time that this issue be settled by research and technical expertise which the un-educated will learn from. as for 'Stupid' there is only one way to fix him , require by law Hi Vis Orange. As for clothing manufacturers the sales of hunting clothing will remain at the same numbers if not increased when mandatory Hi Vis is required and there will still be the need for camo in water foul hunting so even the hunters that have it are not at a loss . Guys this is a win win for all of us when we can reduce the number of deaths in hunting. As a well known institute that promotes shooting sport states in one of their fliers , the majority of new hunters are coming from urban backgrounds not agrarian where some one has taught a degree of safe gun handling , that trend will not change it will continue to escalate as more people move to the cities . Its time to take a different approach and require by law Hi Vis Orange !
I know of two people that have been shot and killed in NZ while wearing hi-vis orange (one through his blaze cap).
It is not a safe guard.
Also noted that last night was the first time I have seen Hi-vis on NZ Hunter Adventures - a beanie worn by the Swarovski guy (probably to match his binos).
PS. Orange is definitely not easy to see in the bush if you are red/green colour blind, which a significant portion of males are.
That is a mistake, Cam McDonald did NOT have a Hi Vis Orange beanie on , look at the picture 2 hours before he was shot . You have NO standards for what is Hi Vis in NZ for hunters ! What he had on would NOT pass any test in the US as a High Vis piece of clothing , I'll guarantee that.
No blaze...orange it seems to be dangerous in some lights....I followed my grandson hunting last week [he had the gun] he was wearing a fairly bright blue shirt with 3/4 blue sleeves but even with an orange hat the blue still was more visible....
mrmax I have to agree,the photo you talking about in certain light eg as published in paper looked more cream than blaze.
Then there's poor buggers like me who can not see flouro. Hi vis really it's just orange or green, given a few road workers a fright, they just don't stand out! Same with yellow flouro pens, can't see them on paper! Now who wants to come hunting with me?;)
Your not the only one with weird eyes, I couldn't tell the difference between green and blue marker paint on cows under fluorescent lights in the milking shed. Didn't noticed the problem until I had to draft out the blue ones from the herds one morning, only when I walked outside noticed that something is WTF. After the mixup haven't been asked to draft stuff again :D
Your not the only one with weird eyes, I couldn't tell the difference between green and blue marker paint on cows under fluorescent lights in the milking shed. Didn't noticed the problem until I had to draft out the blue ones from the herds one morning, only when I walked outside noticed that something is WTF. After the mixup haven't been asked to draft stuff again :D
Ahh and how many times in shooting fatalities , ahh I saw it move and it looked like a deer. The comment from the individual that shot Cam McDonald was I saw the eyes and it looked like a deer . Cam had Camo clothing on which did not have contrast to the surrounding environment. Now while we are continuing to discuss that beanie he had on and there are those that contend it was Hi Vis , PLEASE prove me wrong by showing me the legal definition ; not camp fire talk ; that defines what Hi Vis is and the amount to be worn by hunters in New Zealand, I'll save you the trouble there is NO defined wavelength nor materiel reflect ability of the base material , NOR any restrictions on mottled or semi camo with real Hi Vis as permitted in Australia and NOT permitted in the USA . Clear and simple Technical point there is NO legally defined Hi Vis clothing in NZ. So when you make any statement that he was wearing Hi Vis , your back to Camp Fire talk , there is NO legal defining qualification for that. Even the Mountain Safety firearms course only uses the term, "BRIGHT COLORED CLOTHING" , I know as I taught it. Now I'll add this how many THOUSANDS of hunters were NEVER told about Hi Vis and were only told "BRIGHT COLORED CLOTHING" because you only took that firearms test ONCE in your life time so none of the older instructed Licensed Firearms holder have had any Instruction on HI Viz , it was Not part of the course. And speaking of the MSC course when instructing 99.9 % of those taking the course never put a finger on the guns in the class room , that was the same as it was in 1973 in Colorado when getting a Hunters License to take a firearm into the field. Colorado learned from their mistakes and now has a full day course with hands on instruction and live firing , their safety record is greatly improved, nothing has changed in the last 50 Years in NZ we still shoot other hunters and refuse to require Hi Vis Orange, should see what Einstein said about that ! This fails in comparison to any country that has a legal definition for what Hi Vis in hunting conditions is. NZ is 50+ years behind that curve because of those that speak in terms "well" , "I guess" , and "I recon" , not in statements that this "research paper published in this scientific journal makes the proven FACT ". Please while we're on that issue show me where anyone came up with Sky Blue as a safety color for Hi Viz , its insane , it a color which is recommended NOT to be used . I'll add one more issue , I've never heard of nor seen a deer shoot a hunter .
Ahh PLEASE quite miss representing the facts most hunters are shot wearing camo . Including the guy that his buddy shot with a 270 right across his back I saw the pictures and he admitted that wearing his camo was a contributing factor to being shot . PLEASE pull the files and pictures of those shot and show me a single hunter in NZ that has been sot with HI Vis clothing that would pass US hunting requirements , I'll save you the effort that number is ZERO . And the famous Bike rider that was shot and killed by his buddy near Rotarua , yep camo. Just like McDonald's shooter "I only saw the eyes" .
PLEASE READ THIS , Hunters warned over bright gear - NZ Herald
You said ORANGE hat thats not a statement that it was Hi Vis. would you please try my Hi Vis ORANGE HAT ? FOR REAL . See the previous note and see that Hi Vis hat and read the article that says your wrong ... just sayin .. Hunters warned over bright gear - NZ Herald
The problem with legislating the compulsory use of Hi-vis is this.
If a hunter is in the bush and sees "something" they think..
"Is it Hi-vis orange?"
"No"
"All hunters MUST wear hi-vis orange"
"Therefore it cannot be a hunter"
This sort of mind set is dangerous as it removes the vital process of "IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET BEYOND ALL DOUBT". You start looking for what something ISN'T, not what it IS.
Trampers, climbers, mountain bikers, bird watchers, all outdoors people use the bush we hunt in. Should they have to wear Hi-vis as well??
IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET!!!!!!! regardless of it's colour. It's not rocket science.
What is the US hunting requirements on HI-Vis clothing? @mrmax
While I use Hi vis, it is primarily because I can keep track of where my mates are far easier when they are wearing bright orange. but on the compulsory wearing, I disagree.
I liken it to the compulsory headlights on motorbikes. Yes it is a very good idea to ride with your light on. It makes you MORE visible. However, by making it compulsory now drivers can claim " I did not see him, he didn't have his light on" and it is now up to the victim to prove he was obeying the law. Leave the light as an option and the driver can only caim "I didn't see him" to which the response is "Were you looking" as the victim was not invisible. I do not claim every motorbike is the victim as there are toher ways to improve your safety on bikes. Ride safely and be aware some people wont see you.
Drivers get hit by trains!!!! How did this happen? Trains are on tracks so we know where to look. Trains have BIG lights on so we can see them. That wont matter when DRIVERS DONT LOOK!!!!. If they dont look and see a train, what chance do you have in your tiny Hilux / town car / motorbike / scooter / push bike?
I ride like everyone is going to hit me. Most aren't but one day someone will try by not giving way etc. One day I will be right and it will hopefully mean I am ready to avoid them.
In order to see, first you must look. there is one rule here.....Always identify your target. Not by colour, not by shape and not by sound. But by actually clearly 100% identifying what it is you are about to shoot at. Just like driving, everyone deserves to get home safe.
Hunting in the US is hard to compare to NZ as the environment and other factors (like having to get a "tag" for an animal) are totally different. Their regulations mean you are shooting not just at a deer, but at a particular type of deer (buck, doe, trophy) so target ID is much more particular than just shooting a "deer".
You wouldn't want to waste your expensive tag on shooting your buddy.
I don't wear blaze but my mate does , I thought quite highly of it certainly very visible in the bush was thinking of getting a beanie this roar.
mrmax...... you make valid points and are obviously quite pashionate about this issue yet my good man you have gone and shot yourself in the foot (were you wearing blaze hi vis socks???)
blaze blue works for two reasons
there ISNT anything blue in the bush so it sticks out like doggy danglies
guys who are red/green colour blind CAN see it......and there are a hell of alot of guys like that around
yes deer can see it too but my job is to see them first.
my latest TEE shirt for hunting is a concept Ive been saying for ages...put different pieces of different blaze camo together eg sleeves different colour/body panels in sections,my hunting mates tell me it stands out very well. my best stalking hat is a cap from TEPARI products in Oamaru it is smurf blue and boy does it stand out both in the bush and even moreso out in tussock country...and I for one HAVE seen a bright orange deer at 50-70 yards in bush....could only see horizontal strip about 2 foot long by 3 inches high and couldnt for life of me identify it even through optics with open bolt till head came up and spiker bolted,that put me off straight orange as a safety colour.