https://www.waikatotimes.co.nz/envir...ng-impact-deer
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Everyone blaming everyone else, I’d like to see F&B stump up some of their own money and pay some pest controllers to look after “their blocks” as She put it.
Unbelievable that a fatmer wluld encourage blackberry and gorse "to keep deer out", while proclaiming to be green!
Credibility of this article is zero.
yes - but there is some merit in leaving gorse - I have in a previous life done a lot of restoration projects - we left gorse and other cover and simply made small clearings for natives - the gorse provided much needed cover for young natives - a nursery crop- but Woody you are right -lot of emotive clap trap with article - gorse wont deter deer much if they are hungry - people just need to start shooting bloody simple really
Whats not credible about it? Pretty much telling it how it is from different perspectives. They are legitimate views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Gorse is an acknowledged nursery plant for natives so I can understand that thinking too (later: I see that was said above by Barry as well).
Gorse is a very long term nurse crop, and really should be relegated to large remote locations that people desire to return to native (or any other tree that takes their fancy). Small pockets of gorse simply spread out onto farmland and once there are extremely difficult to get rid of.
There are numerous other nurse crops that will benefit returning natives, that can also have an end value. Unlike gorse.
I think we just used the idea that if gorse was already there then use it but I see your point next to farmland - one thing I did note with the article was the point that many neighbors like to see deer - thats always a hard one with any animal control - bloody hopeless when you look over fence when doing goat control and there's 100 in the neighbors -
Yes. Ive used tree lucerne as an early cover crop - attracts birds immediately. But deer would slaughter it 'cos it's quite a good forage tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
Can't agree @Tahr. I've spent hundreds of hours working gorse and blackberry infested forests. Both spp are a menace along with budlea and himilayan honeysuckle. If hunters were welcomed into those private
farms the problem would not develope. The article is poor. The NZ government tried to justify the ongoing manufacture and sale of 24D and 245T in the face of
international bans and health concerns -
using the excuse that these chemical were
essential for the NZ land developement
and maintainance of pasture and the
agricultural industry in NZ. We all know
the aftermath decades on, today.
Breeding stock = continuality of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
No deer shot during the research for the article, place must be overrun
Might be the clothing of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddleduk
Read it right through.it does have some valid points and hints at the solutions.emotions put aside and educating ALL the public is a start.the doc controlled land being blamed as a nursery it a bit rich for my liking as in my experience it works just as much the other way around. I often hunt in public land and watch deer just over boundary on private land which actively discourages ANY hunting. The helicopter is an incredible control tool.thermal gear is too.the ability to shoot deer at 500 + yards/ meters is another huge step to humans advantage Vs the way it was before. I did chuckle/ frown and fella saying he " saw ears n took a shot,in one breath,then complained deer were educated in the next.
Try and get access to Te Miro.
I had a block probably 8-10 years ago, and the neighbours made it very much their business what you were doing - I guess attitudes have changed since then.
Seen the same thing around here, no one wanted "their" deer shot, pines harvested, replanting starts, don't want the deer and goats now.
Wowser article,as said above if these farmers or whiners let hunters on to keep them in check in the first place they wouldn't have this "issue".now they just want someone else/govt to pay for some culling.Dont even start with the pines planted in the last 5 years the deer numbers are only going to go through the roof from now on,pines are perfect for deer numbers to build in.Then there's the side of the people who like deer which is the camp im in,So many farmers on marginal land want and encourage deer for straight hunting reasons.I aint never letting my block get peeled out it supplies food,fitness,fun.
I was asked to shoot some deer that were coming from the bush onto this ladies horse farm, sounded like a nice oppotunity but I lost her number & the chance of a no carry feed. :(
I am fortunate enough to have a farm behind me and approached the farmer about shooting the deer I have seen. He wants them gone because of the damage to his fences. Originally, I had seen 9 in a mob at 8am, over the last 3 years I've shot in daytime and harvested at times with a thermal 7 of them. They only appear at night now, and only in 1 and 2's. The farmer is happy as. My neighbours are now on my case, they don't see the deer anymore. It's at after dark they appear I don't think people that don't agree with the use of thermals appreciate how effective they are at spotting them. We have a problem with deer people
Yes in that regard the article was very selective. It's difficult to say the least to get access to the private land up there. As it is in many places, And Id love federated farmers to put together a list of landowners who will open their properties too hunters. Which they will not do. And so the side we are not hearing from, is the landowners who like having the deer on their properties for whatever reason including hunting for family and friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
However as much as we all should agree that their view is as relevant as those presented in the article. what most landowners don't do, is provide proper management of the animals on their land.
Also from reading that, I would suggest that the majority of those interviewed were contacted through forest and bird, and it was telling that though stories of deer were told, none were able to be shot to provide evidence of the numbers.
Regardless of that, It is a valid issue we will be facing sooner than later.
I couldn’t be bothered reading the whole story, but the first few paragraphs I read, had nothing I would disagree with.
As hunters we need to wake up and smell the bacon.
A few years back a mate of mine who is a commercial hunter contracting to Doc and Auckland council did a lot of culling work on some blocks North of Auckland, private, council and Doc.
I did a bit with him to help him out.
I’ve already posted on here or it may have been FishnHunt about some of the experiences, and got a fair bit criticism for it, often by PM.
Since I’m a sucker for punishment I’ll reiterate some of what I said previously.
We had a warrant under some MPI act, which allowed us onto private property; irrespective of the land owner giving permission.
In saying that, we did not enter if they got aggressive, or were vehemently opposed. (and there were plenty like that)
When we worked the private land we did not show up with rifles or camo gear. Initially it was purely reconnaissance or surveillance work to see if there were deer present.
The simple fact is there are ton a fallow deer living in the smallest pockets of scrub North - North west of Auckland. The populations are expanding at phenomenal rates.
At the moment the Waitakere ranges are free of deer, but every year they are moving closer, there are no barriers preventing them from reaching the ranges.
The main issue is land owners. Full Stop.
They don't want them shot, they think there aren’t many, they’re cute, it’s Bambi, or they want them for themselves (hunting) or they have something to hide.
Very few said, yes there are deer everywhere, please come and shoot them, they’re eating my horses grass.
Some just don’t believe there are any. I heard a buck croaking from the driveway of one property, while the owner was telling me there are no deer because he’d never seen one.
It was coming from a tiny patch of swampy scrub not 100m from his house, 400 odd meters from the Woodhill pine forest. I later counted 12 between his patch of scrub and Woodhill forest.
We’ve had some robust discussions with various members of the Deerstalkers, the Woodhill Fallow Foundation, Iwi, none of them want the population reduced.
The population is right now in plague proportions in places, I’ve seen so many deer in one place you cant possibly count them. Hundreds!
There are waterways up there which have no runoff from grazed land and they have such high levels of urea or uric acid that the native fish are struggling to survive. It’s coming from wild deer!
There was another private pest controller who shot a private pine block not far from us who shot just under 1000 deer in a one week period.
I don’t know the answer to the private land holders, the life-stylers who unwittingly have a dozen deer on their 10 acres. But in my view Woodhill forest needs to have the shit shot out of it. It’s a nursery constantly spewing deer into the surrounds, like Te Miro on steroids.
The WFMC should allow a couple of years of hunting with no restrictions on deer; or at least Does shot to bring the population down. They need to put professional hunters with Thermal gear into the areas not hunted under permit/ballot which is probably 9/10s of the forest, as there many more times the deer in there.
But they wont because Doc & Council don't have the money, and wont take on Iwi who own the Nursery.
The trouble is. When forest and bird start campaigning for a national policy, they are after total eradication on all lands.
Their push for policy will build distrust. What is needed is not only an upper limit in numbers, but a reasonable cut of limit on controls.
What I want top see is individual policies that work where they are needed. Woodhill suffers from a poor ballot system. TeMiro from the deer having sanctuary on private land during the daytime.
Then we have all the wilderness areas and national parks that restrict access too hunters.
Also make it easier to put wild meat into the domestic commercial food chain. I tried that approach with my herd, and it was diabolicaly restrictive in application and expense.
great points Lauries Hut and Whanauhuia - would be neat to see some type of venison sale go ahead again - perhaps work thru the existing butchers permitted to process deer - I had a permit to sell I let it lapse - was not to onerous - yes I bet if I turned up to TeMiro and asked around would not likely get anywhere and dont get me started on Woodhill - I used to hunt the little DOC lake and Reserve out there and some bloody muppet from Woodhill committee moaned despite the fact the Reserve was nothing to do with them - if I was still in the North I would really like tp push the legal point on that one - its against Conservation act and DOC deer policy to refuse a permit -
It’s still the same today. Council budget for deer control in the area is approx $600k, about 2/3 is spent behind the desk. It’s a joke, anyone who objects can get it all shut down because council need to be so careful, especially with guns in the picture. Imagine trying to employ someone, the have a mortgage and dependants, their 3 weeks into a contract and a neighbour complains to council. They instantly pull the pin, and spend 3 months “consulting”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Poor bastard is just meant to sit waiting with no pay? Mean while the bureaucrats are getting paid, working from home, doing the hard yards.
You should see the health and safety manual the wankers created, it is seriously so ridiculous you’d think it’s a piss take.
Just fucks me off my rates and taxes go to these oxygen thieves, and the money that should be going to pest control is being wasted.
An awful lot of council spend (both district and regional) is obscene when you break it down by first principles as to what it should be. And their glass palaces really piss me off. They appear duty bound to not be able to do anything efficiently nor effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauries Hut
The article didnt clearly distinguish public vs private land.
Nor suggest ecological goals or a framwork for managing the two different environments.
The main danger for us is that there might be high profile but ultimately ineffective professional control operations, with recreational hunters sidelined and discouraged. This would have unwelcome long term consequences.