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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/far...-meat-handling
Two issues her from a hunters perspective:
From a Food safety perspective it would seem to be fairly dodgy loading all those deer carcasses into an un refriderated open tray truck in the middle of central otago in the middle of summer.
Also the same Wanaka based helicopter companies repeatedly shooting deer of conservation land before the roar.
It is easy tussock land country in areas that are important for recreational hunting.
My bet is its for pet food.
As DoC can't keep proper records of where they've dumped that green shit, the deer recovery can't do the correct paperwork so the meat can't be used for human consumption.
I know of a few guys that have bought thermal scopes and spotters to use and are taking large numbers of deer out each weekend and it all goes to pet food :pissed off:
Mountain river doesn't do pet food iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by cambo
They certainly wouldn't be paying 7 bucks a kilo for it if they were.
JoJo will be doing it for the EU market.
We were all in the same group when we were doing venison. They know what they're doing and if there was one bit of taint in those deer they get chucked and the operator loses out.
The standards required these days is miles higher than when we used to take a day and a half to get an animal out for sale when meat shooting.
Can't do paper work? What does that mean?
We knew exactly when and where we were able to hunt. 1080 was never an issue if you were honest.
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Respectably, I disagree with you,Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi
Regarding the meat handling, this has been happening in this manner for decades without any particular issue.
Issue here should not be taken with the operator(s).
Take it up with DOC as they issue the concession to operate within the conservancy. The operator is undertaking an entirely permissible activity.
This turned up on Facebook on a hunting page long story short: landlocked DOC block surrounded by three private properties. Hunter ( landowner or worker or mate thereof) bent out of shape their “private” DOC block got WAROd. Posters pointed out they hadn’t exactly been letting joe blogs access it anyway so sympathy non existent.
Of course no health issue it’s just a poor me rant.
As I understand it, the choppers shot the front faces of the hawkduns then along the manuherikera west branch to the omarama saddle. That land is accessible to ground hunters, albeit with a fair walk to some parts. Whereas over the hawkduns ridge to the interior is a big dodgy drive up the only track , past the bomb disposal site. I have done it but its a fine weather track only and ends up being a bit of a mission. I realize that waro happens and it ain't going away anytime soon, but why do they have to clean out the ground that we can get to safely instead of hunting out the areas that arnt so easy to get to by foot and vehicle. Us ground hunters use those areas too feed ourselves, friends and family. We do not make income off it like waro choppers and shooters do. I know some like @R93 will completely disagree with me, Its just my thoughts and feelings bout it is all. I wish there where better alternatives but as alot of other grounds in my area are getting poisened on a realitivly regular basis, it gets very difficult to find areas that aren't getting smashed by the powers that be.
It’s annoying as all hell when it’s your back yard but part of hunting the South Island. Things are still a lot rosier than the eighties which isn’t to say it shouldn’t be managed better, it’s just not going to be any time soon.
I do agree with you in part actually. But it doesn't phase me or wind me up like some.
Waro is dying in NZ. Costs and red tape make it too hard to setup. Experienced operators that can make a difference are drying up as well.
I along with many others still made a decent dollar, foot shooting deer in areas that would see multiple machines a day.
Imo it is piss easy to find a deer these days. Maybe too easy.
Whingeing about 70 deer off that country for a day, is just that....whingeing.
If it was done everyday for a season then fair enough.
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Must be a dollar or two in it if they can use a Squirrel
I’d suggest the Astar is only used to haul the carcasses to the truck and another machine does the hunting.
You only need 5 deer an hour to turn a profit no matter what machine you use at $7 per kilo. With average pay weight at 45kg. 45-50kg would be an average weight throughout a season on the coast and otago.Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlad
Head, skin and pluck removed before you make any money.
Used to be just pluck removed for payout.
The smaller machine you use the more profit in some cases. But then you cannot lift as many so it all tends to even out if you have a big run.
However I doubt they are shooting out of the 350. It will be just ferrying carcasses.
A good pilot and shooter can make an R44 very profitable but then an R44 is limited to certain terrain due to clearances and power.
At the end of the day venison is just cash flow for a business. There would be very few operators that could afford to rely on it as their only income these days.
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Ffs why do so many people get all upset and anti towards waro? It's a necessary tool for the management of deer on conservation land. Consider the alternatives.. truckloads of 1080? It serves a purpose and allows the operators to make a buck at the same time, I for one would much rather see animals slung under a machine than left to rot on the hill due to indiscriminate poisoning. Imagine for a minute that we did nothing.. We would probably have an explosion in the deer population for the short term, untill the habitat they live in can't support the numbers and the population naturally declines again, the attraction to hunting for me would be gone if anyone could go shoot a deer because you couldn't even get to the carpark without running into one, or a whole group of them. Like it or not, some of the reasoning behind what DOC does in regards to eradicating deer has merit, they make take things a bit far and refuse to accept that they are actually shooting themselves in the foot by using methods such as poisoning (ie: "Save the birds" but in reality end up killing a whole shit tonne of them..) but totally ruined habitats isn't going to support native flora and fauna, and it sure as hell isn't going to support deer either.
You obviously didn't do any hunting in the 80's.
The WARO people I know (not many) are mostly doing rabbits, geese and pigs from choppers rather than deer the last couple of years, but this year is different.
Theres a bloke down here shooting a few using thermal gear on private blocks for ...pet food !
The problem is this waro operation is targeting one of the most popular and important recreational hunting area in otago.
They are targeting this area because it's easy and a profitable operation.
Basically no regard for the public
The bottom line is this land belongs to the public and it's not acceptable that this waro activity has taken place in this area.
Theses helicopter companies could go and carry venison recovery on private country as much as they like. Private country still makes up the bulk of land ownership.
There is a huge amount of feed in this area with very limited conservation value in terms of vulnerable vegetation.
The deer numbers are not going to become a problem due to recreational hunting in this area.
I don't understand why guys on here are supportive of a very wealthy family owned company going out if their way to screw up our hunting.
As a side note I was floundering around the upper reaches of the land owned by this operator last weekend and saw a couple of dozen of Reds feeding happily just on the outside of their boundary fence. At midday it was hot... 33 degrees... I was surprised the deer weren't under the nearest bit of scrub trying to stay cool. It was nice to see so many.
I bet they'd be more than happy if you went in there with your own machine and cleaned 30 or 40 up for them.
Im not a fan of anyone shooting deer ANYWHERE except ME :omg: but I cant be everywhere at once , quick tidy up from the choppers not so bad cream the hinds from the tops a couple of times job done move on , I got my nickers in a little twist last year when a chopper went through my local and tidied up 130 odd but a month latter I was in there and was surprised to see as many as I did , Id sleep better knowing they where leaving the stags alone .
I was but a sparkle in my father's eye in the early 80s, whilst he was shooting from a chopper.. and ground hunting in the weekendsQuote:
Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway
Um... No they can't "just go and target private land as much as they want"Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi
Go somewhere else if you can't find a deer in an area the machines have been through, if they can pick up 70+ deer in a day shooting with one chopper then it's pretty obvious that recreational hunting isn't really putting a dent in numbers at all, sometimes they are going to go through an area that you (and others) deem important, tough bikkies.
If the machines don't pull out a certain number of animals a year then DOC goes in there and sorts them out their way, and believe me you would then have something to really moan about. Sometimes in life things happen that may not suit your agenda.
No one is supportive, just looking at it objectively.
If any operator remains within the bounds of their concession then there is essentially no problem.
Lobby DOC If you want to see changes of commercial access to public land.
DOC are the ones getting something for nothing here, they're quids in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi
Needed to be done, if they're shooting that many deer in a morning operation, there are too many deer. The alternative, a 1080 drop targeting deer. Choppers hunt ALL the public land country I hunt and there are still plenty of deer there for everyone. There have been several thousand taken off private and public land in my local over the past 12 months, and about time. Still saw 25-30 glassing from one spot on Saturday evening, in this same country. They've been chasing deer with choppers for 60 odd years, and there has been no better time for getting into hunting and seeing animals than these days.
JoshC that sorta proves that the choppers only cream the areas and leave good huntable numbers for those willing to put some effort in. Shame they target the stags for the body weight but then there seems to be a lot of good animals taken by ground hunters each year as well.
There is no choice between WARO or 1080 to control deer. That's a false dichotomy. 1080 is not used to control deer. WARO is private individuals profiting off a publicly owned resource, with the consent of DOC. DOC could impose and enforce conditions to make WARO more amenable to recreational hunters, but there's no interest in it. It is not done by the operators out of a good-hearted interest in conservation, it is purely for money. They don't care what you or DOC thinks about how many or what deer they shoot.
A system of more managed WARO to achieve positive outcomes for each group (recreational hunters, WARO operators and conservation) could be implemented but there's no interest in it from the parties that hold the balance of power (not recreational hunters)
The Gimp is one of the few who sees clearly.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
I didn't ask what your father did, but knowing that explains your attitude to recreational hunters.
Unfortunately for us the venison markets look to remain very firm for at least another year or so which will continue to push the chopper boys to get out there
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Yes thats a shame. We can only hope the cost of aviation fuel goes up.
I'm all for looking at these things objectively.......and it may well be that DoC are not in fact 'quids-in', and the only party getting something for nothing here are in fact the WARO operators. Seems to me this example potentially exemplifies a lot of what is wrong with the current WARO regime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moutere
I don't know the area, but do note that a post above observed that there were no special conservation values at risk.....if correct, where is the downside in having a high deer population for trampers to look at and hunters to shoot? The notion that a high population anywhere is bad simply can't be supported from a conservation perspective....surely its all about the values at risk, and the underlying carrying capacity?
And wouldn't it be better for conservation to force the WARO guys (and then maybe find out their economic tipping point) to go somewhere 'harder', more remote and with some real conservation values at stake? We keep hearing these days how the WARO guys work to orders ? Show me the conservation gains by filling your order from the closest animals!
Seems to me this is a classic case of the WARO getting the easy ones 'cos they can'?
At the risk of being labelled a middle-aged opinionated curmudgeon, its gotta be said that some of you (younger?) guys dunno you're alive.......
Objectivity has nothing to do with conservation values.
Posts #25 and #26 sum the situation up perfectly.
WARO operators aren't getting anything handed to them for nothing. Sure, both the operators and DOC mutually benefit from culling animals, but the operator wears 100% of the risk and costs in doing so. A parallel could be drawn with the fishing industry where private companies profit from harvesting a publicly owned resource.
Your second to last line about them getting the easy ones because they can, is exactly my point.
You've completely lost me on the last line though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
I guess we could argue this back and forth endlessly......one of my points was that if the deer are getting mopped up in an area with low conservation values then contrary to your point DoC are not winning, and in fact it could be argued they are potentially losing 'cos if there was a more managed regime the WARO operators could be pushed to places where conservation values are at risk.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Moutere
I can't concur with the fishing analogy.......that industry is targeting a naturally occurring species (as opposed to an 'introduced pest') so by definition the marine biodiversity suffers when fish are removed by fishing, so the public's resource is being exploited by private interests.
And it seems we have both managed to lose one another on at least one point......the assertion that objectivity has nothing to do with conservation values is lost on me, too! ;)
The West Coast would easily have the most waro pressure in NZ.
Especially my favorite places to hunt.
I can throw my rifle and day bag in the truck and be hunting in the time it takes drink a coffee.
I can count on one hand how many times I have been out for a walk and not at least seen something in the last 10-15years.
It has never been easier but it seems for some, that's not good enough.
5-6000 deer use to come out of the Haast area a year when every bugger was shooting or catching.
When I did most of my time on venison there from 2003-2011 we were getting around 2500 a year.
It was still during all that time, one of the best areas to hunt and was productive for people meat shooting or wanting to get one for the freezer.
Some of the best genuine heads ever shot (350DS class) were taken in the region in the last 20 yrs.
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The photo sure looks like the hawkduns,Quote:
As I understand it, the choppers shot the front faces of the hawkduns then along the manuherikera west branch to the omarama saddle
What I would like to know is do these guys stick to this 2km buffer zone? is the whole GPS thing a crock? for a section of approximately 12km from 10 chain creek to German creek the doc land along the Hawkduns is only 2.5-3km maximum wide bounded by private on both sides.....
If you don't stick to the buffer zone and get caught you lose your concession. And maybe not just your waro concessions. Simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by yerimaginaryM8
All you need to hunt inside it is a poison deceleration from the boundary land owners.
A few operations that have tried to bullshit the system have been screwed.
It doesn't just put the operators at risk it puts the whole industry at risk so they're bloody strict.
I have hunted areas where you are doing your best to obey all the boundaries and it is hard work. (Ruahines is ridiculous)
Killing deer on a GPS boundary wasn't worth the hassle. We learned to stay well inside it to avoid any problems.
Never had boundary issues in Haast you could pretty much hunt everywhere that was productive without checking every few seconds, you didn't break any rules.
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Most likely this. We've had to complete a few of these recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93