Colours then.....!!!

Hunting with two Grandsons recently in the Kaimanawas this is what I observed...one fella in standard kahiki dress and shorts pretty tricky to keep visuals on...the other in similar colours BUT with a what I would call a standard mid-range blue hat on, he was on point throughout the stalk, he & I were on, and even out to 150 metres in scrubby shit he was still VERY VISIBLE....
On some days when the sun is getting up I have often paused looking through the bush and seen a lot of Orange foliage a colour a lot hunters seem to prefer.
Just as there no straight lines in the bush apart from the sky there is no BLUE....

Interested in any comments, any stirring or scathing criticisms...:beer::beer:

Can't go wrong with blue IMO, Personally I have a blue long sleeve thermalish thing I wear, feels very "safe"

Green all the way, if you cant see me you cant shoot me.

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Originally Posted by oneshot

Green all the way, if you cant see me you cant shoot me.

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Spot on, unfortunately it's something for these idiots that don't correctly identify their targets to aim at.

Well @BruceY to answer your question statistically speaking 31.86% of forum members prefer to wear orange blaze as opposed to the other 23.01% that prefer the blue blaze but after 2 years of debate the clear winner ( no coalition here) are those that wear no blaze coming in at 45.13% its got me thinking though if the majority are wearing no blaze , what are they wearing :wut: im thinking Flannel shirts .

Im divided over blaze blue for during the day and a clean fluro yellow over vest for the dimmer parts of the day.

the colour orange was brought up as a subject at work the other day, could its over use in the world as a "safety colour" road cones, signs etc be causing or enhancing the effects of so called "mindblindness" let alone its similarity to colours and shades in nature .

It would be interesting to re-read the police presentation I attended back in the early 2000's on this subject

This conversation really interest me, I keep a mindset that no one wants to shoot another hunter, so if others can make a mistake then could I?
I have made a hat out of the pink camo that H&N sells (they sell it as blankets), blue is also very visible especially when trying to follow my hunting buddie through dense bush, but like others my preference is to be unseen.

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Originally Posted by BruceY

Hunting with two Grandsons recently in the Kaimanawas this is what I observed...one fella in standard kahiki dress and shorts pretty tricky to keep visuals on...the other in similar colours BUT with a what I would call a standard mid-range blue hat on, he was on point throughout the stalk, he & I were on, and even out to 150 metres in scrubby shit he was still VERY VISIBLE....
On some days when the sun is getting up I have often paused looking through the bush and seen a lot of Orange foliage a colour a lot hunters seem to prefer.
Just as there no straight lines in the bush apart from the sky there is no BLUE....

Interested in any comments, any stirring or scathing criticisms...:beer::beer:

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I have come to the same conclusion. I have worn a south african '83 pattern webbing in the bush a few times now, and really like it to carry gear in.
But seeing it's a chocolate brown, I figure that sooner or later it will cause a problem, so I'm looking for a blue or grey paint to fix it.

If anyone here has painted webbing, I'd be interested to see how it turned out, and what you used.

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Originally Posted by Gillie

I can’t say I understand the I’ll wear camouflage so no one will see me idea.

Camouflage clothing does not make you invisible. If you are moving the human eye will still see you. If you make noise the human ear will still hear you. If you move a bush it will still be seen. Camouflage clothing would only be an advantage if you stopped moving i.e. you thought something / someone else was there. Planning for this to be the case out in the bush means you are putting your faith more in your ability to silently hunt and detect another hunter in the bush before they detect you. Chances are if they hear you moving or see you brush by a bush they will stop moving until they know what you are… chances are if they don’t know what you are they will try and ID you through their scope…

Rather than simply rely on my stalking ability I try to stack the odds in my favour by wearing blaze clothing. Not just a hat but a full blaze orange shirt with a black camo pattern. Yes, people have been shot wearing blaze. I remember reading somewhere that in the excitement of the moment the brain can “see what it wants to see” or “see what it expects to see”. I wonder if it is more or less likely to do this with blaze or camouflage clothing or simply at darker shade of skin… or the hair on someone’s head…

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I posted this in an old thread discussing what colour to where while hunting... some food for thought.

Something to consider with the blue blaze is the spectrum that deer see in makes blue pop out in the same way it does for us. Arguably of cause, seeing as we can't just ask what they see. Attachment 91719 even kuiu's vias has blue based colours that in the deer's spectrum pop out of the camo pattern Attachment 91720

Something else to consider is the prevalence of colour blindness in the male population (most hunters). My understanding is that up to 90% of males suffer from colour blindness to a greater or lesser degree.

From colourblindness.org:

Colour blindness (colour vision deficiency, or CVD) affects approximately 1 in 12 men (8%) and 1 in 200 women in the world.

The effects of colour vision deficiency can be mild, moderate or severe so, for example, approximately 40% of colour blind pupils currently leaving secondary school are unaware that they are colour blind , whilst 60% of sufferers experience many problems in everyday life.

Statistically speaking most people with a moderate form of red/green colour blindness will only be able to identify accurately 5 or so coloured pencils from a standard box of 24 pencil crayons. Depending upon which type of the condition a colour blind person is suffering from they could see the set of pencil crayons similarly to the following images.

I was speaking to our optomotrist about colour blindness last week as he was testing my boys for keratoconus. My best mate is severely colour blind and we picked that up as kids aged 7 or 8 playing in the fields in England when trying to catapult bunnies. The optomotrist last week said that in NZ about 1 in 10 blokes are affected in some way. So no offense @rupert but that doesn't sound like 90% to me.

It is important to understand that these people are shooting through bushes, at something they haven't seen. It really doesn't matter what you wear when you are talking about people who will not identify their targets. One guy was shot through his blaze orange hat.

what would make a difference is harsher sentences. if people know they are going to jail for ten years for shooting a person mistakenly, then they will stop treating hunting so casually. Harsher sentences were brought in the USA years ago and it reduced these kind of mistaken identity shootings when hunting virtually overnight.

But lets put this all into perspective. You have more chance of being eaten by a shark than of being shot out hunting in NZ.

Yes I agree Carlsen. I don’t like to troll and rant and rave about stuff I don’t know much about... but the sentence on the recent Kaimai accident was a massive eye opener for me. Like, is this for real? I honestly had no idea that not going to jail was even an option for something like that, no matter how contrite you are. It doesn’t seem to stack up against all the other things that happen in life, when things go badly wrong.

The guy who fed dope cake to his colleagues got two years FFS!!!

I missed the Kaimanawa deaths in 2002 / 03 whenever it was, when there were three in a row, as I was overseas, but when I read about those a few months ago, and the police report that came after, I thought 9 months was bloody light.

the harlequin type tees from hunting and fishing have a little of this and a little of that..sort of a buck each way...love mine and mates tell me it sticks out like doggies danglies. Ive got blaze blue and have shot deer wearing it.

Hi Guys
Thank you that feed-back was very bloody interesting...if I remember correctly originally blaze orange was identified as being the colour most able to be seen in the white continent from the greatest distance...even black/dark colours all faded into the white spectrum eventually...

the early stuff was pinkish orange and it was much more effective but fellas wouldnt wear it....dont think the 1 in 10 red green colour bling males would be able to see it either,according to my buddy he justs sees it as bright....the red green thing makes it very frustrating to point out a brown object on green grass or indeed green pooh on red meat,they simply CANT see it.

Yeah a few years back watching a rugby game with wales vs ireland on the tv a mate asked- "how do they tell the teams apart?"

That was how he found out he is red/green colourblind

I find that blaze blue sticks out like dogs balls in the bush but as with all things, new gear is brighter than old gear

I'm just confused. I can see how dirty orange can become dangerously like a red deer. Fine the first trip but after 5 trips.
Blue camo impresses me in that it can't be confused with anything like game. However as noted above I'm told that deer see it clearly.
A year or 2 back I was walking out from a trip with some mates in crappy weather. I put the fluro hood on my pack and my mates commented after that it really stood out. I woudl have been in olive and cameo.
Zq

Plenty of deer and other game been taken while hunter was wearing blue.

Yep I should probably wear blue, just can't quite bring myself to do it yet.
And thankfully I don't do a lot of DOC land bush hunting. And definitely not in the roar.

As an aside, Are most of these shootings occurring in and around bush and bush margins?
North Island? (more bush hunting and more hunters)
Zq

I remember quite clearly Stoney Creek advertising the colour spectrum deer see in, particularly surrounding blue standing out to deer.
Having said that, I now always wear blaze blue (Stoney Creek funnily enough) after 2 people I know being shot in the bush.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the harlequin type tees from hunting and fishing have a little of this and a little of that..sort of a buck each way...love mine and mates tell me it sticks out like doggies danglies. Ive got blaze blue and have shot deer wearing it.

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Generally don't wear blaze anything, however do have a blaze blue beanie and one of the stony creek vests that I will wear in higher traffic areas or over long weekends etc. Won't hunt CNI during roar after a close-ish call a year or two back.

Agree with Micky Duck about the blue though. Doesn't matter shite what colours deer see. If you are moving or silhouetted you will be sprung.

How many hundreds of thousands of deer have been shot by guys in a pair of stubbies with pasty white legs sticking out from under a rotten old swanny?

As for the shooting of other hunters, it is ALWAYS failure to identify target

Attachment 102104
I may be exposing myself to ridicule but who would shoot someone wearing pink?

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Originally Posted by 2post

Attachment 102104
I may be exposing myself to ridicule but who would shoot someone wearing pink?

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Rednecks and skinheads would shoot someone wearing pink. :yaeh am not durnk:

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Originally Posted by Cigar

Rednecks and skinheads would shoot someone wearing pink. :yaeh am not durnk:

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I walk to far into the bush for rednecks and skinheads so I should be ok. Don’t they like to shoot from their porches?

I’m with @2post here’s one to go with your hatAttachment 102128
Staying safe but still being able to enjoy your sport while not having that nagging doubts of am I visible to another hunter, am I visible to deer and can I be mistaken for something else!
Well if you shoot me wearing this!
Again as already said won’t stop the idiots that shoot through bushes at unidentifiable targets!

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

It is important to understand that these people are shooting through bushes, at something they haven't seen. It really doesn't matter what you wear when you are talking about people who will not identify their targets. One guy was shot through his blaze orange hat.

what would make a difference is harsher sentences. if people know they are going to jail for ten years for shooting a person mistakenly, then they will stop treating hunting so casually. Harsher sentences were brought in the USA years ago and it reduced these kind of mistaken identity shootings when hunting virtually overnight.

But lets put this all into perspective. You have more chance of being eaten by a shark than of being shot out hunting in NZ.

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Unfortunately I do not believe this to be true. How many people have died in the last 40 years from Shark attack in NZ? And how many have died by being shot by accident in the same period?

And as for the few attacks in Dunedin in the 60s....It is possible that was caused by a shark being attracted to illegal (or sly i not illegal at the time) dumping of fish and meat scraps near a popular surf spot. That is akin to two hunters wearing deerskin jackets so they look like deer.......(except it was not the surfers fault...)

The papers are dragging up a couple of 50 year old shark attacks and I have to ask myself why? What are "they" about to try sell us?

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Unfortunately I do not believe this to be true. How many people have died in the last 40 years from Shark attack in NZ? And how many have died by being shot by accident in the same period?

And as for the few attacks in Dunedin in the 60s....It is possible that was caused by a shark being attracted to illegal (or sly i not illegal at the time) dumping of fish and meat scraps near a popular surf spot. That is akin to two hunters wearing deerskin jackets so they look like deer.......(except it was not the surfers fault...)

The papers are dragging up a couple of 50 year old shark attacks and I have to ask myself why? What are "they" about to try sell us?

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And what a shit time of year to publish there article or not depending on what they hoped to achieve , start of summer just what every surfer / diver /swimmer wants to no , maybe they have the ultimate shark repellent to sell or perhaps the publisher just gets payed a little more with extra hits ...as the Don would say FAKE NEWS from the loosers

Great topic. There's a text written by an academic in Australia who is studying how fish see which is called from memory "what fish see" and a good deal of it is concerned with how do we know what they see even if our eye structure may be very similar (rods and cones etc). Which leads me to my small point which is just because deer are able to identify blue as the one colour in an otherwise monochromatic visual range it does not necessarily mean that it stands out to them particularly but just that it can be seen.

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

I’m with @2post here’s one to go with your hatAttachment 102128
Staying safe but still being able to enjoy your sport while not having that nagging doubts of am I visible to another hunter, am I visible to deer and can I be mistaken for something else!
Well if you shoot me wearing this!
Again as already said won’t stop the idiots that shoot through bushes at unidentifiable targets!

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Where did you get that @Sideshow, it looks good. I’ve only seen kids stuff in pink, I had to make the hat myself out of a blanket from H&F.

Ok I get that @bing but if it stands out from its surroundings the deer will concentrate more on it so when it then moves well games up.
Colour is one thing and movement is another but add the two together and your busted. It's a fact that if your trying to sneak in on a deer and they see you move but have not identified you as a threat they will after a while carrry on doing what ever they where doing. But if they see you movment from that area again the game is up.

As for shark attacks versus hunting deaths well I doubt that there are many hunting deaths in Aussie but shark attacks :O_O:

As Winston Churchill once said "The only statistics you can trust are the ones you have falsified yourself"! :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SKJeenZmf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9gbl-RS14A

This series might be interesting

[QUOTE=Sideshow;779051]Ok I get that @bing but if it stands out from its surroundings the deer will concentrate more on it so when it then moves well games up.
Colour is one thing and movement is another but add the two together and your busted. It's a fact that if your trying to sneak in on a deer and they see you move but have not identified you as a threat they will after a while carrry on doing what ever they where doing. But if they see you movement from that area again the game is up.

100% with you re movement. I'm no expert re colour and animals just an interested observer. As I understand it blue happens to be the only colour that deer are able to differentiate and in our terms the only colour they can 'see' which is not to say that for deer it actually "stands out from it's surroundings" but simply that it is part of their register as five finger leaves for example will have a particular monochromatic tonal value blue may simply be another discernible visible entity and be no more prominent than the five finger leaves. Again, not my field and I should probably go looking for a reviewed paper on the subject. There's a big deer farming concern over the road from me, I'll ask the manager what the research says and get back you.

Ooops, starts to fall apart in the first few minutes. Dart gun's or tranq guns as we know them were invented in the 50's by Colin Murdoch in NZ - me thinks this video might be a little bit 'loose'. Anyway will watch the rest of it before I get carried away :)

Never new that ^^^ :) must have done it to catch them jet boats that had been invented :XD:

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

Yes I agree Carlsen. I don’t like to troll and rant and rave about stuff I don’t know much about... but the sentence on the recent Kaimai accident was a massive eye opener for me. Like, is this for real? I honestly had no idea that not going to jail was even an option for something like that, no matter how contrite you are. It doesn’t seem to stack up against all the other things that happen in life, when things go badly wrong.

The guy who fed dope cake to his colleagues got two years FFS!!!

I missed the Kaimanawa deaths in 2002 / 03 whenever it was, when there were three in a row, as I was overseas, but when I read about those a few months ago, and the police report that came after, I thought 9 months was bloody light.

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To open up another old argument, if you cause a traffic fatality, it is just one of those things, going by the sentencing. Hunting with a license is no different from driving with a license, except the ballistics are several magnitudes more powerful with vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I have come to the same conclusion. I have worn a south african '83 pattern webbing in the bush a few times now, and really like it to carry gear in.
But seeing it's a chocolate brown, I figure that sooner or later it will cause a problem, so I'm looking for a blue or grey paint to fix it.

If anyone here has painted webbing, I'd be interested to see how it turned out, and what you used.

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Buy some gentian violet microscopy stain, hard to wash off anything, including the sink, so play with it somewhere marriage-safe! You'll look like one of those purple camo soldiers in the cadbury adverts, but you'll be visible for sure.

This link suggests the gentian violet stain is fixed by heat, e.g. a tumble drier, but I'd hesitate to risk staining the tumble drier. https://breastfeedingpositionsreview...or-purple.html

@2post from Pinewood in Sweden. Type in pink hunting vests.

You could also try pink Velcro straps. I used to use some that we would use on cow hoofs to mark out those that where not lent to go in the vat. These straps I’d have around my arms.