Copper Bullet Performance On Deer

• Tested out some ICC Ammo, 308 150gr Barnes TTSX a while back, groups were terrible
• Realised that within 100m it should be alright and it will have the benefit of speed, so optimal expansion
• Out for a bush stalk on the way to bigger clearings on Thursday evening
• Magazine stacked with normal rounds and a TTSX on top
• A few fresh prints on the ground leading to a ditch
• Peered over the lip
• Young deer 50m away puts it head up, quartering towards
• Load round, aim, peow, deer down
• Easy find
• Very impressive penetration, front shoulder out to just before the rear leg, full exit
• Large exit, impressive expansion and entire cavity was soup
• I've found that with the Sako Gamehead Pro 165gr at that distance it either fragments into multiple exits doesn't exit at all
• Think I'll keep using the TTSX for the close range stuff, and the Gameheads for 100m+
• Anyone else used the 308 TTSX? What distance do you use it out to?

Attachment 271064

Nicely done !

But


Sooner or later you will inexplicably lose a deer to solid copper projectiles pencilling through, and you will go back to cup n cores or anything with a J4 jacket

I've been using the 130g ttsx in my 308 for years and a deers never walked more than 10m if used within there limits. 200m is my rough limit but i never really know as I don't carry a range finder when using this rifle.

This is a projectile I recovered out of hind few weeks back at approx 200m. Found just sticking out of the skin, insides toast.
Attachment 271068

This is another one from ages ago but can't remember details.
Attachment 271069

I use 130grn ttsx on stags in the roar,just hit some bone in the fronts and its game over

Drive them fast & hit bone, game over.

With the Barnes projectiles you have to use light for calibre & push them hard, ie 130 in 308 win as a max weight, unless you are hunting wild cattle etc

Once you start using solid coppers you won't go back...just further into the rabbit warren :thumbsup:

I have used quite a few different Hammer projectiles & really rate them, have some new 7mm HBC's showing up soon

The only down side I can see with the Hammers, Monos, etc is the lack of BC as we have mostly turned into BC addicts

IMHO this only rears its ugly head past 4-5-600 yards

The whole lead debate could well be overblown, but we have the ability to completely eliminate the risk for a small cost, so why not :)

Have used 130ttsx quite a bit, even launched at nearly 3200fps they work best inside 200 y.
They need impact velocity to work well.

I just chrono’d 60 grn hammer hunters today. 20” .223 Reconfirmed 3280. I’ve got a 22creed coming next week. Just imagine.

Use 120gr ttsx in 16" 7mm08, shot about half a dozen so far and all have not gone far at all if anywhere, so far happy with results.

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Originally Posted by Springy

• Tested out some ICC Ammo, 308 150gr Barnes TTSX a while back, groups were terrible
• Realised that within 100m it should be alright and it will have the benefit of speed, so optimal expansion
• Out for a bush stalk on the way to bigger clearings on Thursday evening
• Magazine stacked with normal rounds and a TTSX on top
• A few fresh prints on the ground leading to a ditch
• Peered over the lip
• Young deer 50m away puts it head up, quartering towards
• Load round, aim, peow, deer down
• Easy find
• Very impressive penetration, front shoulder out to just before the rear leg, full exit
• Large exit, impressive expansion and entire cavity was soup
• I've found that with the Sako Gamehead Pro 165gr at that distance it either fragments into multiple exits doesn't exit at all
• Think I'll keep using the TTSX for the close range stuff, and the Gameheads for 100m+
• Anyone else used the 308 TTSX? What distance do you use it out to?

Attachment 271064

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Use 110gr TTSX. Then you will be impressed. Everything tagged has this wicked crack.

Ive been using 110gt TTSX's out of my 308Win. Speed is north of 3200fps, excellent groups/accuracy. Very little meat damage and bruising of the surrounding flesh is very acceptable. I've taken animals out to 500m with it.

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Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Ive been using 110gt TTSX's out of my 308Win. Speed is north of 3200fps, excellent groups/accuracy. Very little meat damage and bruising of the surrounding flesh is very acceptable. I've taken animals out to 500m with it.

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What's the wind drift like?

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Originally Posted by caberslash

What's the wind drift like?

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None. They get there super fast. But it is that noise when you tag a beast. Maybe it is a match made in heaven. Used to load 55gr TTSX for a mate but he hated them.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

None. They get there super fast. But it is that noise when you tag a beast. Maybe it is a match made in heaven. Used to load 55gr TTSX for a mate but he hated them.

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Here's the noise. 150 grn TTSX, 300saum, 3150 fps. 250 yards. Looks like a slow kill, but it was deaded on its feet. Projectile just under off shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovPBtIdvRA

At 500m with a 10m/h cross wind the drift would be around 6. 3moa.

On the morning I took the shot at 500m the wind was very lightly blowing directly towards me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeRei

None. They get there super fast. But it is that noise when you tag a beast. Maybe it is a match made in heaven. Used to load 55gr TTSX for a mate but he hated them.

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On my calculations (taking your MV number as truth), you are getting 1 inch of drift per MPH of wind at 300m.

That's considerable

One thing nobody has mentioned yet if accuracy is not good it pays to have a full clean back to bare steel.
Get all that cup and core gilding metal fouling out..completely clean before testing coppers for accuracy.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

One thing nobody has mentioned yet if accuracy is not good it pays to have a full clean back to bare steel.
Get all that cup and core gilding metal fouling out..completely clean before testing coppers for accuracy.

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And then clean all the coppers copper out before going back to cup n cores and J4 jackets :)

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

And then clean all the coppers copper out before going back to cup n cores and J4 jackets :)

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Ron Spomer reckons done in this sequence that the monometal copper fouling doesn't seem to affect accuracy very much of cup 'n core bullets. But he found accuracy of monometals could improve considerably if the barrel is first cleaned of copper fouling of cup 'n cores.

I haven't seen evidence of that. He may just be measuring precision poorly and drawing unsupported conclusions.

E.g. 10rd of 55gr ETIP from .223 on top of a whole lot of fouling from ELDM

Attachment 271229

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Originally Posted by gimp

I haven't seen evidence of that. He may just be measuring precision poorly and drawing unsupported conclusions.

E.g. 10rd of 55gr ETIP from .223 on top of a whole lot of fouling from ELDM

Attachment 271229

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Then you're good.
But if it's not then your barrel might need a good clean out before it will shoot coppers.
Are etip pure copper or a gilding metal alloy?
Pretty sure Hornadys mono's are a similar alloy to their jackets so they play nice together.

Here's Barnes TSX, same thing. Not saying it isn't possible but I haven't seen convincing evidence for it - if someone pulls some up I'm all eyes

Attachment 271233

@gimp sorry could you please explain for a newbie a little more?

Is it possible that shooting the odd Barnes TTSX through my 308 might affect the groups of my lead ammo?

Using the copper for close-range stuff and the lead for longer shots from the same rifle seems like a good combo for me right now.

Some people claim that switching from lead-core to pure copper bullets without extensive cleaning may cause poor precision with the copper bullets. I have seen no evidence of this effect. It may be true, I look forward to seeing someone test it or post any evidence they already have

Lost on this. You clean your barrel after every hunt whether you fire a shot or not. Either you have a clean barrel or not. If you dont have a proper cleaning regimen then that is a different story.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

Lost on this. You clean your barrel after every hunt whether you fire a shot or not. Either you have a clean barrel or not. If you dont have a proper cleaning regimen then that is a different story.

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Sounds excessive

"Large exit, impressive expansion and entire cavity was soup"

Exact description to my mono experience on a red. 170+ yards. Double lungs with 150 GR Winchester copper impact, Impressive exit. 16" 308 Tikka Bushunter 1. Muzzle Velocity 2580.

Currently Howa Carbon Elevate with ttsx 130 and Fusion 150.

@gimp OK cool, I just run a few patches down mine after use, and it seems to shoot great every time.

In saying that, I'm never shooting more than 350m. If I start to see accuracy dropping, then I'll give it a thorough cleaning. But for now, it seems fine and accurate enough on deer.

Lots of you have been mentioning a lighter 308 Barnes option, 110 or 130gr. I'll keep using these 150's for close-range stuff for now. Later this year, I'll look at getting some Maker Tipped 130gr rounds made up. I'll report back on them then.

For now I'll see if I can get a few more at close range with the Barnes!