Decades of 1080….before and after

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Originally Posted by No.3

The markets for venison still exist for one example - however they have been severely constrained due to large areas where animals cannot be taken for consumption due to the risk of residual levels of poison detecable in the animal products. Any shipment heading overseas needs to be at zero detectable, or the entire shipment is canned which couold run many tens of containers. Financial suicide to risk it... I know of a few outfits that could start up export tomorrow if not for the risk - this is the same as recently found with 1080 detectable residues in certain honey products.

Poisoning is a solution, that is true but the answer I don't think is solely poisoning and solely 'uncontrolled' air dropping as the broadcast method. Applying the bait by station, logging/documenting and either disposing or recovering of carcasses, and recovery of unused baits as well as funding a research regime for testing and establishing levels of residual poisons across the feral populations would go a long way towards allowing a commercial control mechanism to restart. Against that - you have a lot of potential for spatial conflict on increasing numbers of people wanting to utilise a shrinking allocation for resource (this is the same problem with commercial/recreational fisheries in a nutshell).

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My comparison to the wild venison market was that even with big pressure and big private enterprise the deer endured.
Possums and rats are no different and I would also challenge anecdotal evidence that possums ever declined significantly due to the fur market.

I do however agree that aerial poison is only a tool that one day needs to give way to other maintained control methods. I am genuinely heartened be the inroads being made in the Perth Valley for example.
I am not pro, nor against. Maybe indifferent to a necessary tool.

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Originally Posted by Moutere

My comparison to the wild venison market was that even with big pressure and big private enterprise the deer endured.
Possums and rats are no different and I would also challenge anecdotal evidence that possums ever declined significantly due to the fur market.

I do however agree that aerial poison is only a tool that one day needs to give way to other maintained control methods. I am genuinely heartened be the inroads being made in the Perth Valley for example.
I am not pro, nor against. Maybe indifferent to a necessary tool.

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What do you believe was the maximum possum population total in NZ ?

Only needs to be 'controlled' sufficiently to allow native populations to flourish though, remembering that a level of browse is desirable to ensure regen and spread of certain species' seeds. 'Uncontrolled' populations of deer (or to put it the other way deer populations controlled by the available levels of food) are insanely damaging to bush and prevent a lot of flora replacement from growing through. Possum, rat, cat, and mustelid have the potential to be more damaging on native bird as especially cats and mustelids don't have other options for food when birds and eggs run out...

Conversely 'uncontrolled control' leads to issues with bykill, species damage and non-tracked effects (invertebrates, amphibians, bats, aquatic) so there has to be an acceptable level of where we say that's it we've cracked it.

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

What do you believe was the maximum possum population total in NZ ?

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Anecdotally?

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Originally Posted by Moutere

Anecdotally?

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From your previous :'Possums and rats are no different and I would also challenge anecdotal evidence that possums ever declined significantly due to the fur market'.

We need a base number to work from

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

From your previous :'Possums and rats are no different and I would also challenge anecdotal evidence that possums ever declined significantly due to the fur market'.

We need a base number to work from

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No, you need a number it seems.

Bit like the numbers of sheep quoted in NZ - a very well educated, scientifically generated wild arsed guess!

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Originally Posted by Moutere

No, you need a number it seems.

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I wish to consider your previously stated challenge, on what numbers ( evidence ) is it based ?

well allow me to wade on in here....
when thousands of possums were being shot,poisoned or whacked on the noggin with a 16oz claw hammer,the population was being lowered daily..... they would however have still been rooting like rabbits in the rooting season and repopulating country,HOWEVER.... there was less possum poontang to be doing the funky chicken than there would have been had the said shooting poisoning and noggin whacking been happening..so LOGIC WOULD SUGGEST the population was lowering by degrees


and I do not believe you need a degree to conclude that all the shooting,poisoning and noggin whacking was helping lower the poulation

and again I do not believe you need a degree to conclude that doing more shooting,poisoning and noggin whacking would still help to lower the population again....

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Originally Posted by No.3

Bit like the numbers of sheep quoted in NZ - a very well educated, scientifically generated wild arsed guess!

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Bingo, gold star right there.

The trust trying to eradicate Grey squirrels in the UK are making huge inroads with a bait that sterilises them from what I have read somewhere recently (wish I could remember where) and I have long advocated that is what we should be pushing for rather than poison.

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Originally Posted by Happy Jack

The trust trying to eradicate Grey squirrels in the UK are making huge inroads with a bait that sterilises them from what I have read somewhere recently (wish I could remember where) and I have long advocated that is what we should be pushing for rather than poison.

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This is good. It bypasses the issue with GMO to ensure eg a possum/rat only produces male offspring. The issue there is if a rat gets on a ship it could be all over for the country they get to.

Always identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss and I will be missed