This wee vid by Eric Cortina demonstrates the considerations before cold bore shot. Enjoy.
https://youtu.be/6yq4u9INw94?si=cP59xv6ReuvgoDsC
Printable View
This wee vid by Eric Cortina demonstrates the considerations before cold bore shot. Enjoy.
https://youtu.be/6yq4u9INw94?si=cP59xv6ReuvgoDsC
Thanks @Woody that was a pretty interesting video to watch, whilst I chomped through a couple of roasted goat hocks for lunch!
Interesting for a lot of reasons:
- How far from the traditional blued walnut the American gun fraternity is
- How much MONEY some enthusiasts are prepared to spend!!!!!
- How they could all recite the list of components, that was like a competition in itself
- How near PERFECT the conditions were and yet only one shooter hit the MOA target. The others were mostly crippling kill shots but... And one clean miss, followed by a gut shot, and we have all done that at some stage. You hear a lot about fine tuning a rifle, the
load, the Nut behind the bolt, but at the end of the day, how many shooters can put that first shot where it counts? Add in field, conditions like, hunger, fatigue, adrenaline, sun, wind, rain, hail, snow, cold fingers, rock and trees. Plus a hangover and how many shooters could consistently hit the MOA kill zone. I'm not sure I could. I've never tried to hit a deer at that range and probably never will.
Last point. Interesting how most of the shots went to the left, which make me think that these fellas must be practicing at the same range as Thomas Crooks?
Yes. A five inch nominal vital area at 500yds (455metres) sounds easy but reality is different.
Nearly all 6mm of some description, and none what I’d call a hunting rifle. Fair bit of wind at times judging from bushes behind & foreground. Mostly right to left, but some the other way for some shooters. Didn’t see any one using a Kestrel or similar to help with wind call.
If my first two shots from a cold barrel are almost touching or near enough then I consider that superb for hunting accuracy.
Im really pleased these guys are doing this. Its something, probably many of us have known for some time. Also why I tend to be "jaded" in my support for LR Hunting. They were all top of the line rigs in better than hunting conditions. I like this approach more than the constant killshot one.
It's not about how well your rifle groups, it's about your ability to place yourQuote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyJason
first shot precisly in field conditions at 500yards.
Jezz would put @Dundee with stirling up against them any day.
The young lad in the video pulled off a great shot. Personally, I stick to 200 metres and that's when everything is right. I know my limits.
How many are confident they could make that hit first round?
Front shoulder of a red deer is more like 2-2.5 MOA target, that I could do, 1 MOA well I wouldn’t bet a hundy on it.
100% with my hunting rifle ? Not I.
Perhaps at 300 though.
yes if that is how they do with what are obviously target rifles and not hunting rigs - then how are they going to go with hunting rifles - okay some were dead deer shots and wind likely played a part = a lot shooting out to left - but gut shots and misses - the young fella was great - thanks Woody
It's an interesting one, most rifles that one would be confident in at range are not close in or easily carried firearms - generally longer barrel with a heavy profile (even if carbon wrapped or fluted to heck). Stocks are rigid, and generally heavy profiled and set up for prone use with a bipod and internally stiffened with a chassis or pillar and rail setup. Scopes are usually high mag and heavy as well. Even if the caliber isn't huge the rifles aren't close-in bush guns that's for sure. The rifles I've used in this class are all heavy and bulky, and that is where they get the repeatability - enough mass to dampen down your movements and twitches...
Most rifles carried in NZ are compromises for this sort of use, lightened and trimmed which affects ballistics and makes them more difficult to shoot repeatably every time. Also you need to be in suitable terrain, most places are limited for this.
I was looking forward to Eric having a crack.
The fact that he did not is quite telling...Quote:
Originally Posted by flock
No problem smacking that deer in the center of shoulder at 500yds with a bit of wind (light breeze) from right to left.Allow about a 12in drift.308/165gr drifts a wee way up here in the north west breeze.Good practice at the range when windy.
Very similar to the dinner plate challenge, nice to see others have similar ethics.
Another perspective. We have an annual egg shoot. An egg in a plastic bag against a neutral background (so misses/splash can't be seen) 500 yards. First to hit their egg wins I.e. not time but number of shots. After 5 rounds without a hit the scorer marks the centre of your group.
The best winning score (in the 10 or so years I've run it) - 2 rounds. I've won twice with a Lithgow 308 (that I stupidly sold), once on shot 4 and another time on shot 7. Ya ain't gonna place if you gotta go past 10 rounds.
Most of the guys are shooting sporting or semi sporting rifles (as opposed to full PRS /F class rigs) and most of them get their egg in shots 10- 15. I'd be the first to encourage guys to get closer and avoid long shots but modern gear is very good if it's not too windy!
I liked the video but then I like a lot of what Eric puts out but would love to see it tried with hunting rifles, especially after seeing the only one to manage it was using a rifle worth more than my ute
I would have given it a go with my good old full bore rifle - my 788 in 308 ( technically capable ) on 6 power ( 2-7 Leupold ) nah give it a miss -ohhh well maybe it could give it a go ( now how much drop is that )- and thats the problem - in real terms how many of us have tried shots that really were not on - worse thing probably do it again - just on the off chance mentality
Yep. Its wind is the biggest factor. At a guess Id say those guys were compensating for the wind they could feel and somewhere out there between shooting position and target there was a whole heap less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
From experience Id go and sight in on a perfect day, and get over confident about how I could shoot. Then when I set up a long range and days were not perfect, it humbled.
The number of times Ive seen guys adjust for wind and then have first shots land off target in opposite direction.
for those that have shot there so the story goes the old Trentham Range at 800-900 range the wind could be one direction at the firing mound and the complete opposite at the target butts - and no I don't think that would compensate the wind out
Interesting video. Amazing that blokes with very well set up target rifles couldn't do it. Makes wonder just how hopeless I'd be with my old howa...
@Barry the hunter As I was reading this thread I was reminiscing about when the Kaituna Rifle Club would come across the Ditch and we, Helen and I, would ferry her brother, father, friends, and rifles up to Trentham for the Ballinger Belt Competition. My father-in-law always lamented the wind at Trentham. His pet phrase, and one I still use the this day was, "That's a bitchy niggly wind today!" Classic shooters line!
Hit probability on a 1moa target at most ranges isn't terribly high. It's not surprising really considering the variables that must be controlled and the degree to which they must be controlled, and how that increases as range increases.
I have a 150mm diamond plate, which ends up being about 1MOA at 500 metres. It is very difficult to consistently make first round hits on it. All things perfect with the shooter and their inputs, the mechanical hit probability of most rifle systems will be lower than 100% on a 1MOA target at any range where exterior ballistics become a factor. Add shooter error and input errors and I would expect most cannot do consistently.
Same as the Forums' very own Dinner Plate Challenge, except each shooter was required to shoot at 500 yards, when with the Dinner Plate you get to choose the distance. I wonder how many of them, if shooting the Dinner Plate, would have nominated 500 yards as their distance? How many would have pushed it out further. Most I reckon. Not so keen on heeding Insp. Callahan's advice.
I'm with MB on this one — 200m for me.
Very few can do the same in the field as at the range.
500yards it a bloody long way.
I rarely shoot over about 150yards. Perhaps 200yards in near perfect conditions. But that is in part due to where I hunt.
"A man's gotta know his limitations"
If long range hunting involved having less gear, cheaper equipment and no esoteric calculations, I believe nobody would bother doing it.
I think I've posted this somewhere before. Old army standard targets for shooters. All shot with open or non-magnifying sights at 100 yards. Prone 2 MOA, Sitting or Kneeling supported 3MOA, Sitting unsupported 5 MOA and Offhand 7MOA. Theres a lot of shooters out there that cant consistantly achieve these standards with modern telescopic sights so probably should think twice before shooting long range.
Plenty are confident. But most fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
I've seen it all, plenty out there claim to be experts. Might be ok at a range, in the field it all changes.
The world is full of bull shit artists. Another thing, you only see the successful shots, nobody uploads the messy ones.
"The 223 on deer" thread is a great example.
A man's gotta know his limitations.
https://youtu.be/uki4lrLzRaU?si=zxiVRL0v5LS95Vek
Situation would have to be perfect for me to shoot at a living thing at 200 yards.