Thread: Deer Population Growth

This vid is about Axis deer hunting on a Hawaii island (and is interesting) but there are many parallels with NZ that are discussed. In particular go to 11.00 and see the graphic on how numbers expand if females aren't culled/controlled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avBePIr-IpQ

Tell me about it. I saw over 40 deer on the weekend, in a place that barely anyone goes. I gave up counting. I’ll be heading back there after the roar to do a phat cull up. The numbers will explode exponentially in the next year or 2

Originally Posted by Jus

Tell me about it. I saw over 40 deer on the weekend, in a place that barely anyone goes. I gave up counting. I’ll be heading back there after the roar to do a phat cull up. The numbers will explode exponentially in the next year or 2

Wow, I haven't been out lately as its too hot

Originally Posted by Tahr

This vid is about Axis deer hunting on a Hawaii island (and is interesting) but there are many parallels with NZ that are discussed. In particular go to 11.00 and see the graphic on how numbers expand if females aren't culled/controlled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avBePIr-IpQ

Lanai is like africa, everyone should hunt there at least once in their life.

Nice hunting companion there with a cool rifle.Oh the deer,yes they breed like rabbits.I normal dont see a lot on the full moon,maybe 2-8.But last time out seen about 25 with in 1.5 ks on 98%full moon.All hungry walking to the feed areas,some by me.

Originally Posted by Jus

Tell me about it. I saw over 40 deer on the weekend, in a place that barely anyone goes. I gave up counting. I’ll be heading back there after the roar to do a phat cull up. The numbers will explode exponentially in the next year or 2

Yeah, I know a couple of spots like that.

The numbers have already exploded. Last time out (mid Jan) the hinds were out with their fawns, plus lone stags, small groups of spikers, yearlings. From a high vantage point looking out over a large station west to east, every single grassy face I could see from me to over 4km away was carrying red deer. 15mins before the sun dipped below the ridge behind me, they were lit up like little red baubles on a Christmas tree. Hundreds and hundreds of deer. The challenge is that this station has been retired and is now largely scrub for honey production. So the deer have a free pass to a huge acreage of good feed with no sheep competition, and plenty of scrubby cover that provides effective safe harbour. There are numerous native blocks on the steeper ridge lines that are the deer / goat highways - go in there and there is zero understory and an unreal network of well worn trails. Sit quietly looking into the wind in the mid- to late afternoon, a deer or several is guaranteed to pass by sooner rather than later, right under your nose. The surrounding farms don’t stand a fucking chance. Those that have some semblance of control have someone on the block shooting deer at least weekly and often two or three times a week.

To those that don’t see or shoot deer very often it must sound highly attractive! But if you’re shooting deer day in, day out, it quickly becomes a chore and the constant killing can get to you. I don’t mind admitting that I’ve tired of it recently and I’m taking a break to concentrate on other things.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

To those that don’t see or shoot deer very often it must sound highly attractive! But if you’re shooting deer day in, day out, it quickly becomes a chore and the constant killing can get to you. I don’t mind admitting that I’ve tired of it recently and I’m taking a break to concentrate on other things.

It's good to see someone else admit to that, it happened to me when I was guiding, we knocked over 900 deer in a couple of years really took the fun and drive out of it for a while it's taken a while for the excitement of the hunt to return but it has now.

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by BRADS

It's good to see someone else admit to that, it happened to me when I was guiding, we knocked over 900 deer in a couple of years really took the fun and drive out of it for a while it's taken a while for the excitement of the hunt to return but it has now.

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I aint no guide but I to am getting sick of killing deer,i like watching them though I always learn something new about them while watching them.I absolutely love the Roar and ill take a stag or 2 every roar as a trophy/memory and also a meat animal when needed but I don't like shooting to waste.

I definitely get more enjoyment seeing the kids shoot the deer now even tho the young fella missed a wall hanger 2 weeks ago Then redeemed himself with a 6 pointer couple hours later. I can see why my old man had us on the gun in later years after shooting thousands of deer even then we were either pighunting or deer shooting every weekend was some great memories made. Still pighunt 3-4 times a month now it's just work that holds me back from going every second day .

Always cracks me up how people boast seeing "too many" deer in their "secret spot".

Plenty of new and young hunters that would be keen if somebody showed them those "secret spots" of yours.

Originally Posted by STC

Always cracks me up how people boast seeing "too many" deer in their "secret spot".

Plenty of new and young hunters that would be keen if somebody showed them those "secret spots" of yours.

yes but I have lost now two good spots in last few years by taking so called friends down only to have them do the dirty on me and then take their mates back and stuff it up for me - despite asking them to respect the fact that I had the permission - one now called the prick even camped out on one spot with his mates and when spoken to by cocky dropped my name into it - I lost a neat little block as next time I rang I was refused access - so those of us who have spent a lot of time and effort to find good areas do guard that permission somewhat

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

yes but I have lost now two good spots in last few years by taking so called friends down only to have them do the dirty on me and then take their mates back and stuff it up for me - despite asking them to respect the fact that I had the permission - one now called the prick even camped out on one spot with his mates and when spoken to by cocky dropped my name into it - I lost a neat little block as next time I rang I was refused access - so those of us who have spent a lot of time and effort to find good areas do guard that permission somewhat

Totally understand where you are coming from.

However If one choses to believe the "there are too many deer" narrative there essentially are 2 options: share the spots with "too many deer" and accept that that will not the case for long or give in to the 1080/pest eradication propaganda that some actors are pushing for in this thread.

Originally Posted by STC

Totally understand where you are coming from.

However If one choses to believe the "there are too many deer" narrative there essentially are 2 options: share the spots with "too many deer" and accept that that will not the case for long or give in to the 1080/pest eradication propaganda that some actors are pushing for in this thread.

1080 will never be used to eradicate deer. But aerial shooting operations are looming - in many areas there are too many deer. Most farmers though don't realise the high populations on their properties - they aren't looking for them and aren't ninja'ing around at the right times.
Honestly though and to keep things in perspective, I don't tell some farmers how many deer I see on their properties for fear of a gun ship reprisal or them opening their gates to other hunters. There's naked self interest for you.

Originally Posted by Tahr

eradicate deer

I want to clarify something regarding the use of the word "eradicate"

In wildlife management, "eradication" has a specific definition - the total and permanent removal of a population. There are criteria that determine whether this is technically feasible:
1. Animals must killed at rate faster than rate of increase
2. There must be no immigration into the managed area
3. All reproductive animals must put at risk

It is not possible to meet these criteria for any ungulate species across the whole NZ mainland within any kind of economic scenario you could imagine. Eradication has only ever been seriously considered or attempted on Islands or localised isolated populations on the mainland e.g new releases of deer or isolated populations of goats. There are many examples where attempted localised eradications have failed - they require a lot of funding and must be extremely well planned.

NZ is ~26,000,000ha. Eradication becomes exponentially more difficult and expensive to achieve as area increases. The largest deer eradication from an offshore island to date was Secretary Island in Fiordland at 8,000ha. This cost something like $1,000,000 10 years ago.

Simple multiplication (disregarding the actual exponential cost) gives you an idea of how terrifyingly expensive the idea of eradicating deer from NZ would be even aside from all of the other issues - capability, social license, illegal releases, poor-cost benefit when you consider discounted present value of future benefits, etc.

There is no sensible person or anyone in any position of relevance in any management agency who considers or advocates for eradication of deer from NZ. Even if there were, it is technically and economically impossible.

The only realistic option for managing deer in NZ in the future is sustained control to manage impacts. A sensible, sustainable and realistic picture of what this might look like is yet to be articulated by anyone at all, to my knowledge.

"1080 will never be used to eradicate deer." @Tahr. Never say never. Trials were done years ago on the effectiveness of . One trial was applying paste to foliage of preferred browse of Whitetail down south. There was talk of 1080 trials on Fallow down south as well (farmer initiative possibly), have been on a place where we shot a few for dog tucker and thinned the rest to waste. And it was accidently proven how effective it can be on Red deer on Molesworth a few years ago, everyone involved in that operation was horrified at the outcome of that operation.