https://www.newsroom.co.nz/deer-devi...the-deep-south
Just read this may interest you , access issues probably caused this problem.
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https://www.newsroom.co.nz/deer-devi...the-deep-south
Just read this may interest you , access issues probably caused this problem.
We should all definitely shoot more hinds everywhere we go.
I wouldn't say it's high quality reporting, so let's get that out of the way, not endlessly complain about it, and move onto what we as hunters can actually do, within our control, to help prevent the increasing deer numbers in some places around the country becoming an issue for the future of hunting in NZ: remove more breeding females whenever the opportunity presents itself
there definitely is a problem in some areas and hunter access can be hard to get, some farmers want the deer gone and are happy to let people go hunting while the farmer next door likes the deer and doesent want anyone to shoot them. took a mate out earlier this week to get his first deer and shot 2 hinds out of a mob of 7 and will be back to shoot some more once the venison gets low.
A lot of built up areas in southland because half the public land you can't get access to.
Like accessing through Cattle Flat station to land locked DOC block that has deer galore
Locked roads that lead to doc land are also really offputting. :/ Been sending out a couple of letters to ask landowners permission to cross their paddocks to access difficult-to-reach areas, hopefully they respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRT
But yeah I understand people get paranoid when it comes to safety, especially when firearms are involved.
I was talking to a Farmer who gave us access through his farm to a Doc block this roar about how the said Doc block was completly overrun and the quality of the bush and the deer was badly suffering. I asked him how many of the hunters he lets have access through his farm to the boock would come out having shot hinds. He held up his hand in the shape of a donut and told us we were the first for a long time. He said most guys just tell him the stags were shit so they shot nothing.
We had shot 7 deer that trip, 5 were hinds.
Exactly, everybody is saying ito shoot more hinds. but bugger all are doing it. Some of these private land helicopter operations tend to be stag focused as well. Lots of antler in that articles photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by LMcNab
well,when access is granted,I will shoot what I can use.... hate the thought of leaving venison to rot.... my freezers are in healthy state ,all three of them....but intend to shoot another deer in next month and make sausages and patties..... might just shoot two.
lots of antler...and one looked a rather good antler too......par for the course unfortunately.
It’s bullshit. There’s no deer here
Excepting the sound of stags roaring that’s the impression I got down the Catlins this roar block I had for two days - but then I was coaching a beginner (wife!) so wasn’t full-on into stalking mode as I would have been if hunting alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan F
There's definitely to many deer about in many places, the affect hunters can have on private land numbers will always be limited by the landowner though. On public land access is a major factor.
Attitude/ethics is probably the next most important factor. If an area is holding very high numbers then is it really wasting and wrong to shoot 2-3 hinds/deer and only carry out back steaks and fillets? Compared to shooting only one deer and carrying out all the meat shooting multiple animals is better in the long-run.
The hippies shouldn't have taken everyone's AR15s then.
There's an interesting episode of Meateater, where Steve talks about the folly of the hunter's idea of "if I don't get to eat it, it's wasted" He then points out a list of possible scenarios where other creatures we share the planet with benefit from energy in an animal carcass. I'll admit, it's much easier in an American context where there are large native scavengers and preditors, but I'll give it a go.
The deer you shoot and only take backstraps and fillets creates a massive colony of insects, and some carrion birds feed on it. Other native birds then feed on all the insects, they become fat, and fertile, and have a more successful nesting season. Their offspring spread out, distributing nutrients further around the forest, creating growth for Kereru and other browsers. Some become prey for Falcons, helping them to have successful nests. Nature doesn't really "waste" anything, and at the current population levels in some places, this way of thinking about it might be beneficial.
In saying that, I also see the benefit to hunting perception of eating as much as we can. There are also alot of guys out there who have no problem taking no meat off a stag and just walking away with his head. Life is complicated.
Back in November my son and I hunted a favourite spot on the West Coast. On the first day we saw about 80 deer - mostly in 3 large groups of yearlings as they had recently been chased off by their mums. So for every one of those yearlings, nearby there was a more than likely pregnant hind = around 240 deer, and this was in a very small area in one valley, probably no more than a square kilometre.
We never bothered venturing further up the valley to see how many were there.
We shot 9 over 4 days but could have shot more. Obviously couldn’t carry 9 deer so were selective in what we took. Wasteful? Sure was, but not as wasteful as DOC hitting the valley with 1080, and the number we shot will not even go close to slowing the population growth, let alone reducing it.
It is a simple equation. Either hunters need to shoot more animals to help control the population, or the control will be taken out of our hands.
I absolutely agree with your general sentiments (although I don't see that kind of numbers on the West Coast! That is a concerningly high density of deer.) but I'd like to note that 1080 is not used to target deer anymore (since back in the forest service days, ish). There are no DOC 1080 drops with deer as a target species; there may be a lack of concern at some deer bykill in 1080 operations happening for other reasons (possum/predator control) but 1080 is absolutely not dropped for the purpose of killing deer. People may have the opinion that it is, but that is factually incorrect and it does hunters a disservice to repeat factually incorrect opinions, it undermines our credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
DOC currently does very little deer control anywhere, and this has been the case for a long time, where it does occur the chosen method is generally aerial S&D - e.g. Kaweka Mountain Beech, Raukumara, Fiordland Takehe area etc.
Read that a few days back, a bit all over the place but not the worst hunting article produced by Newsroom by a long shot.
Moral of story: shoot more hinds people.
And goats.
Really saying they don’t target deer is just playing with words. Most valleys have possums, stoats, rats and mice. Of course they won’t say they’re targeting deer, but the by-kill still happens. How many ‘Mast years’ have we had in the last decade?
If you want an example, go for a walk downstream from the main road at the Waikukupa River. Some prime deer territory in there during Spring, but you will be very lucky to find one in there. I asked a local farmer why this was and his answer was it sees regular poisoning to stop TB spreading south past this area. Not specifically targeting deer, but they are not there in any numbers all the same.
A couple of years ago I was shown a video of a herd of deer running across a saddle in North Canterbury. There would have been approx a hundred deer in this herd. This particular area is part of the Arthur’s Pass East block that now sees regular poisoning. Go and see if you can find those deer numbers in there now.
Not all deer poisonings get the publicity of the Molesworth event, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Yes - and the places that get 1080 (from DOC) are typically targetting those that have high priority species to protect from those predators, not the areas with the highest deer numbers at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
It certainly would be a waste of money to drop 1080 in parts of Arthur's Pass for example if you wanted to target deer, but the drops happen, to protect Orange Fronted Parakeets/Mohua etc.
See the Nelson Lakes NP situation for how DOC is working with hunters for management in an area where there have been reports of high deer numbers.
Yes, deer die from 1080 - no, the drops are not targetting deer. It is an important difference in the conversation about management.
Easy access to mataura range, east dome on the other hand is no access unless you raft down the river. Ridiculous amount of deer through that area, below average antler quality too worse than the ruahines.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRT
So much landlocked doc land down here it's no wonder the numbers are building up so high. Needs to be a law where access must be granted for any landlocked public land.
In north, people share ownership for a boat since nobody will go out every weekend. How many in south would like share ownership of Huey helo? Anybody...
I respect landowner, that is their land. Just do `t know why they block the access to public land.
They block the access to public land because they get sick to death of idiots that don't leave things how they find them when they go through their land, shoot their stock, hunt on their land without permission, leave bottles and shit everywhere, rip up their paddocks and destroy tracks with their retarded jacked up Toyota surfs etc etc. People don't just wake up one day and decide to make things difficult for others, their attitude is a direct reflection of their experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
In addition to the observations about access challenges across private property, I'd observe that generally speaking DoC could do way more by being more permissive with aerial access for rec hunters. @gimp noted the recent arrangement in Nelson Lakes Nat Park, and the Sika Fioundation have achieved some concessions in the Kaimanawas and Kaweka's, but heaps more could be done.
A while ago now, but the farcical (in my view) position DoC adpted around allowing AATH in wilderness areas, but not allowing rec hunters to be dropped into the same areas told us plenty about DoC's real attitude to rec hunting at that time. As noted above here have been improvements since, but inchworm progress in the scheme of things.
As we've all seen from our PM, 'virtue signalling' is a core leadership attribute now, it seems? DoC could try some towards hunters?
Figured. Thought maybe something else I could `t knew as out-lander. Really, shoot farmer `s stock? by accident, or intentional? No compensations to farmers at all, a sheep is `t that expensive. Alright, do `t want become another xxx. Want to make sure with you guys, so here is the scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
Someday, I miscalculated on map because compass reading, and walked into a private land, sadly killed or injured a sheep or cow by accident, and I find the landlord or he/ she finds me, and then I say "sorry" , willing to pay for the damages. So, what `s the odds they will accept me to come again? :pacman:
Assuming you mean "by accident" with a firearm, I would be telling you to f off and calling the police. If you are incompentent enough to injure or kill a sheep or cow by accident I don't want you anywhere near my property.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
A sheep is worth from $150 for a lamb to several thousand dollars for a stud ram, cows are worth from a few hundred for a weaner calf to thousands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
I suspect those types are not like me and others who ask in person if they can access the DOC land via the farmers land?
I for one would treat access via private land as a privilege to be treasured and not abused.
Come down.. chill. Just ask, the "F" word would `t be necessary. :sick:As said, any damage will be covered and beyond. If it was me caused loses, 150 dollars, 1,500 dollars or more, we can talk nicely to solve it, Only an accident, can I?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Alright, by what you said sir, I shall stay away from farmland. Again, just assumption, now I knew. Have nice weekend.
Cheers
Difficult to imagine any legit scenario where a person could accidentally harm livestock while hunting outside of gross negligence/incompetence/malice; quite unforgivable
Sorry man but you must have violated some aspect of the firearms code such as 'checking firing zone' or 'identifying target beyond all doubt' to harm livestock unless it was a freak accident, like accidental discharge and the bullet just happened to hit a non-target animal. Please be careful, you might end up shooting a person one day if mistakes like that are repeated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
Now that I think about it, some areas have feral sheep to be hunted, so I could only understand being on the border between farmland and docland with sheep and a privately owned sheep makes itself visible?
Yep there is too many. I will often shoot a few just for back steaks when on big missions to try and decrease the numbers in certain areas.
Eh???Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
I hope you realise I wasn't actually telling you to F off, I was explaining what my response would be if I was a farmer under your scenario.
The response from most farmers would be similar, and I doubt any farmer would be inviting you back. It probably wouldn't matter anyway as you would likely have your firearms license revoked by the police.
Your scenario is a very serious situation, the penalty for discharging a firearm on land without the owners permission is up to $100,000 or 2 years jail or both, and that's without injuring or killing livestock.
Yes. I understand how serious of this scenario, and I do appreciate the situation of what I may be facing if I neglects safety responsibility. As said, I respect local culture and rules of law. May you sir will think how a grownup will ask about this? Because Gimp said there was farmer`s stock been shot by hunter, so following that I ask bit further. Just to try to learn more for the local culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Again, I will never do that. Even I am not big fun for GPS, but at least I know how to use compass on map, and I have all the high definition maps for every blocks I may go. printed in waterproof, stored in my backpack. Thank you and good day.
I never said anything about stock being shot until someone else bought it up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Rabbit
A farmers stock being shot is normally a deliberate act by irresponsible people. Either they intended to shoot the animal (for the meat, or for "fun"), or they misidentify the animal when illegally spotlighting (i.e think it's a deer).
For example, here is recent post from Facebook:
REWARD OFFERED!!�� PLEASE HELP US!!��PLEASE SHARE FAR AND WIDE!!��We are absolutely beyond heartbroken not only to be contacted while we were away over Easter and told our beautiful Awakeri had broken his leg and had to be pts, but now to come home and find out that he was actually SHOT with a high powered rifle, which broke his leg, which then forced his life to be ended unnecessarily (humanly by a vet). This happened in Matatara Rd, Upokongaro, Whanganui Good Friday night on private land the shooter was either trespassing or on the road. Awakeri only turned 3yrs old in November. He would have been in excruciating pain standing all night in his paddock where he had been happily grazing with the other horses. They were all in the open next to a round pen so no...he could not be mistaken for a deer.
Damn. Any chance it could caused by an overshot from distance? couple Years back, I read a article said a boy was shot by a flying bullet came out from bush up north of Taupo or somewhere I can `t remember. The boy was fine, surgery on the shoulder, the father carried beacons and helo came in quick, but lost lots of blood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Maybe I read wrong from your reply on Page2 for the question of why farmers blocked access. I really do `t know people will shoot farmer `s stock in NZ, poachers as far as I heard are those hunting for wild animals in private land without permission. Two of my friend in North said their block was visited regularly by pig hunters since they do `t live on the land. Neighbors told themQuote:
Originally Posted by gimp
like when stalking in bush and come out to edge and see a deer through light screen of foilage....but not the deer fence between you and deer LOL..... why it really pays to know where you are at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by JessicaChen