Thread: Discussion on NZ Hunting moving forward - NZGuns

Yes , that should then encourage a political lobby and lead to legislation creation they way we need it.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

Good article, I like the way you think.

To my mind there is a major contradiction between hunters and ecologists. The hunter has a vested interest in maintaining the animal populations, and is focused on sustainable meat collection. The ecologist/greenie is focused on sustainable biodiversity/forest health, and has a vested interest in removing feral 'pest' species. Finding common ground can be very challenging, but is essential to avoid the green rain future.

So the obvious solution would appear to be to maintain pest populations at a level suited to allow healthy forest biodiversity. .

well a few years back local council got all excited over small patch of ground,it has some rather rare types of grasses in it..being swamped by non native grasses ,so they ASKED me if I would put sheep in to graze it....block devided in half....the idea was to graze one half,not the other and work out what density of sheep per ha was GOOD for keeping reserves health and lower fire risk etc.... all went well and I built up sheep numbers as requested...then we got dry year and loads of rabbits in felled trees....the grass got eaten down in parts hard,not so much in others ...then the greenie element decided sheep eating too much other shrubbery so all had to go...NOW
the whole idea of finding balance abandoned at first hurdle..I was left with small mob of sheep and no big area to hold them.....still had grazing on couple of small reserves so didnt have to slaughter them all.....
it really opened my eyes to how short sighted the twig n twitter element can be...

As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.

Originally Posted by Inder

As an outsider and from a country which effectively banned almost all hunting and currently on the verge of loosing guns. All kind of shooters hunters/non-hunters need to support each other in every possible way. Make no mistake, if hunting is gone then will take your guns too asking reason why you need guns. Public at large has no idea about plinking shooting for fun etc. Only thing you will be left with ISSF or something like that.

Get more girls into shooting/hunting. You will have next few generations who will shoot. Take out people, get your colleagues to shoot with you. I have taken out hardcore anti-guns people and believe me once they are on range and shoot few rounds they convert. \

Charging hefty amounts to foreigners. Ha ha that is like making a lion taste blood. You can forget free/cheap hunting for locals then and then a time will come when only foreigners will be hunting. We have seen that in INDIA prior to hunting ban, wealthy Americans were doing all hunting then.

Stop being apologetic about guns/hunting. You are not doing anything illegal. I like guns and hunting and if someone has a issue with that then they can go F themselves.

This!

absolutely correct. I shoot clays and targets as well as hunt. lets face it if we dont have viable hunting, we dont have firearms. The latest regulation change debacle should have proven that by and large we are all one group and can support each other and face the same threats. As well the game animal council can use its advisory role in support of firearms users in general, not just hunters.

taking the girls out hunting and or shooting is a load of fun..... my girls know how to shoot but BOTH are cack eyed ..left eye dominant and right handed so trying to get them to line anything up is problimatic....might just HAVE TO fit red lazer and be done with it LOL.

I'd hate to see us get locked out of public land hunting. I also dont like how lots of foreigners specifically (pre-covid) come here to hunt public land.
I think non citizens should have to engage a guide and primarily be restricted to private land.
The best way forward is to join political parties so our voices are heard.


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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

well a few years back local council got all excited over small patch of ground,it has some rather rare types of grasses in it..being swamped by non native grasses ,so they ASKED me if I would put sheep in to graze it....block devided in half....the idea was to graze one half,not the other and work out what density of sheep per ha was GOOD for keeping reserves health and lower fire risk etc.... all went well and I built up sheep numbers as requested...then we got dry year and loads of rabbits in felled trees....the grass got eaten down in parts hard,not so much in others ...then the greenie element decided sheep eating too much other shrubbery so all had to go...NOW
the whole idea of finding balance abandoned at first hurdle..I was left with small mob of sheep and no big area to hold them.....still had grazing on couple of small reserves so didnt have to slaughter them all.....
it really opened my eyes to how short sighted the twig n twitter element can be...

The ecologists get just as upset about non-native plant invasion of native biodiversity as they do about feral animals. Perhaps what we need to do is find some definitive examples of feral deer preferentially grazing exotic 'weedy' species invading otherwise native ecological regions to prove how essential it is to maintain both feral animals as well as hunting control mechanisms to keep them at the correct level?

I doubt that would go anywhere. In fact, would be inclined to establish vigorous non invasive exotics to slow erosion and accelerate and assist native flora succession. Anethema to the purists though.

the single biggest issue I can see going forward is lack of access to plink type shoot....... a big open safe area where its ok to shoot is getting harder and harder to find....

Originally Posted by Phil_H

But they do already @Cyclops. I see the same names on your clubs membership as as I see on the NZDA membership down in Darfield.

Cheers
Phil

@phil Shooters can choose to be members of whichever clubs they wish and support those clubs and aspects of shooting.

My point, which I reiterate, is that shooters shouldn't be forced to support the preferred shooting/sport of others.
A hunter can be a target shooter, a clay bird shooter, a fisherman. Good on them if they are.
But none of those disciplines should be forced to fund the others.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

@Cyclops, I understand your point of view. That said I think 'WE' - and I mean all firearms owners/user - can take the short view.

In truth all of us, Yes, every firearm owner/user, first and foremost belongs to one club before any other. WE all belong to the Firearm Owners/Users Club

<SNIP>

Cheers
Phil
AKA "The Full Sock Puppet"

Not sure what your point was in your post @phil.

I agree we are all firearm users and we need to support each others rights/privileges to use our firearms.

You didn't address the funding proposal in the original article that suggested all firearm users should essentially be levied to support hunters and hunting. That's what I have an issue with.

We, shooters, should support each other - but doesn't mean fund each other.

Originally Posted by XR500

To 90% of NZ's population a gun is a gun is a gun.

The Pollies and the antis are playing the age old "divide and conquer" tactic.

We have been warned.

This

Originally Posted by Cyclops

An interesting article.

You lost my support when I read


Some of us are shooters who aren't hunters.
Why should I pay tax on my equipment to benefit hunters?
Please don't propose to finance your sport from my bank account.

and divided we fall... sure target shooters may never benefit from hunting, except of course when hunting organizations defend firearms ownership or operate local ranges etc.

Originally Posted by Shadowsol

Hey guys,

Heres an article I wrote for NZGuns (I think its open for all to read, if not please say so and I'll do a brief summary) - would like to see some discussion and your thoughts / input as this is a vital topic

https://nzguns.co.nz/hunting/ensurin...n-new-zealand/

cheers

I'm pretty late to this discussion but here's my thoughts on your article:

I think your goals are contradictory.

You began your discussion on hunting tourism by saying that we should embrace it. You then say that we should put additional barriers to tourist hunters in three different ways- by charging them for a license, by requiring them to hire a guide and by requiring them to buy a tag. There's nothing in the discussion about exactly how the tourists would be embraced. It sounds like three more reasons not to hunt in New Zealand. Also, towards the end of the article you say that we should shoot the hind to control numbers but implementing a tag system would preclude a tourist from shooting more than one.

I'm against the idea of taxing all firearms and ammunition. Not all firearm owners hunt and increasing the cost of being a firearm owner is contrary to your goal of encouraging more people to hunt. I'd be OK with it if it resulted in protected shooting ranges close to major cities as opposed to just "game animal management." Game animal management in USA costs money because they are actively working to increase herd numbers and repopulate decimated species. The only management required here is to decide what numbers we are happy with and keep them below that. Currently this is done by culling. I'd like to see culls replaced by a bounty system.

I don't want to be too critical of you because I agree with your concern for the future of the sport and I think you have some good points:

Yes we need as many shooters as we can recruit. And hunters.

Hunters for Conservation is a very good idea. I didn't know there were organized efforts from hunting organisations like NZDA to put out all those stoat traps I see around. I always assumed that DOC did them all. Maybe some better PR is needed.

Yes we are massively underrepresented in politics. I'm surprised that you never mentioned ACT. National pay lip service to hunting but I don't think there are any actual pro-hunting parties in parliament other than ACT.

Originally Posted by Woody

Agree; but I also believe there could be major improvements such as 4wd bike tracks into many rrmote areas to allow NZ hunters to shoot and extract animals from such locations without forking out large heli fees. All possible areas should be made more accessible to us and I feel this would have a significant impact on deer and possum management. This would also reduce the ongoing aerial poisoning including that socio economic disadvantage and transforming to Advantageous benifits all round.

I don't really agree. By doing this you loose the remoteness and appeal of wilderness (official or not) . Helicopter access is bad enough as there's not much truly remote country. I personally beleive somethings are more important than everyone being able to access places. Some things aren't fair and never will be. It to me feels like giving participation medals in a triathlon and no places. Why work harder.

Look at all the easily accessed tourism and even hunting spots that are ruined by easy access. Huts that get vandalised and have huge amounts of litter and beer bottles are almost always those with 4wd access. We have some great access with more public free huts than almost anywhere do we really need to be able to drive to every deer chammy and tahr in the country.