Thread: DIY Questions from a Canadian

For years & years, I've been reading articles & watching videos about hunting tahr & chamois in the South Alps. I've discussed the idea of making a trip to NZ a few times with my CFO, who has indicated she will not sign off on the expenditure request. With some reluctance though, she seems to have given luke-warm consent to an unguided adventure, if I can figure out the logistics of it all. Coming from Canada, I've tried to read as much information as possible from DOC, these forums, etc. as I can find. The more I read, the more questions I have, so I thought I might just ask some of them here. I can share info that I have about hunting in many of the western states in return, if that helps any.

For background, I'm in my mid-40s. I prefer bowhunting (have bowhunted for 30+ years), but also rifle hunt on occasion. I'm in relatively decent shape, have gear for most situations that I've run into thus far, and have DIY hunted throughout Alberta and most of the rocky mountains & Alaska for a variety of species. I can't seem to entice any of my associates to want to get out into some of the weather & steeps that you have there, so I most likely would be going solo, unless I can convince someone else to join. For an unguided adventure, I'm thinking I could allocate ~2-2.5 weeks to get to the South Island, and back to Canada. I would guess that would leave me with ~4-5 days for travel, and ~10-14 days for hunting, depending. Due to gun laws, I've been pondering leaving the rifle behind (possibly a completely foolish idea). Due to time & lack of familiarity with any areas, I was thinking that I would just book a heli to taxi me into some off-the-beaten path hunting areas, and possibly still have time to do 5-6 days in two separate areas, just to add to the overall experience. With vacation schedules, this would be planning for 2025. Initial areas that I've looked at include the Landsborough, Mt. Cook, Fox Glacier area. I've also been doing a bit of research about the Canterbury area, just in case weather would be poor on the west coast.

Priority is on 1) getting back home safely, 2) being able to see "mature" animals, 3) hunting when pelts are more prime in condition.

Questions:
- Would it be a fools errand to bring only the bow, and not my rifle (can you get encounters within ~60m of tahr & chamois within a week of hard hunting)? Or is the added range worth going through the paperwork?

- Would it be more of a norm, or an exception, to be able to find tahr & chamois within the same basins/catchments? (would it be best to try to focus on those possible areas, or to allocate a number of days looking for tahr in a specific area, and allocate the other days looking for chamois in a specifically chamois area?)

- Is the hunting/hunting pressure/quality of animals that much better in the balloted areas than the non-balloted areas?

- Do the body sizes/trophy quality/ genetics (particularly for tahr & chamois) vary much from basin to basin, or from the west coast to east? (e.g. I read somewhere that the tahr on the west coast are much bigger in body than farther east - true, or no)?

- Are pelts "prime" from May on? June on?

- Does the weather get more consistent as you go into winter? I prefer snow to rain, FWIW.

- Would a good time of year to plan to come over be late May/early June to catch the end of the Chamois rut, and peak of the Tahr rut? Or are the animals moving so much during that time that the rut could actually be more challenging than slightly past peak of rut as they focus in more on feeding again?

- Due to weather concerns over that short of a window of time, would it make more sense to plan for Canterbury region hunts than the west coast?

- Are there any other major factors I should be considering during my planning?

Any feedback that any of you could provide would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Timberdoodle

For years & years, I've been reading articles & watching videos about hunting tahr & chamois in the South Alps. I've discussed the idea of making a trip to NZ a few times with my CFO, who has indicated she will not sign off on the expenditure request. With some reluctance though, she seems to have given luke-warm consent to an unguided adventure, if I can figure out the logistics of it all. Coming from Canada, I've tried to read as much information as possible from DOC, these forums, etc. as I can find. The more I read, the more questions I have, so I thought I might just ask some of them here. I can share info that I have about hunting in many of the western states in return, if that helps any.

For background, I'm in my mid-40s. I prefer bowhunting (have bowhunted for 30+ years), but also rifle hunt on occasion. I'm in relatively decent shape, have gear for most situations that I've run into thus far, and have DIY hunted throughout Alberta and most of the rocky mountains & Alaska for a variety of species. I can't seem to entice any of my associates to want to get out into some of the weather & steeps that you have there, so I most likely would be going solo, unless I can convince someone else to join. For an unguided adventure, I'm thinking I could allocate ~2-2.5 weeks to get to the South Island, and back to Canada. I would guess that would leave me with ~4-5 days for travel, and ~10-14 days for hunting, depending. Due to gun laws, I've been pondering leaving the rifle behind (possibly a completely foolish idea). Due to time & lack of familiarity with any areas, I was thinking that I would just book a heli to taxi me into some off-the-beaten path hunting areas, and possibly still have time to do 5-6 days in two separate areas, just to add to the overall experience. With vacation schedules, this would be planning for 2025. Initial areas that I've looked at include the Landsborough, Mt. Cook, Fox Glacier area. I've also been doing a bit of research about the Canterbury area, just in case weather would be poor on the west coast.

Priority is on 1) getting back home safely, 2) being able to see "mature" animals, 3) hunting when pelts are more prime in condition.

Questions:
- Would it be a fools errand to bring only the bow, and not my rifle (can you get encounters within ~60m of tahr & chamois within a week of hard hunting)? Or is the added range worth going through the paperwork?

- Would it be more of a norm, or an exception, to be able to find tahr & chamois within the same basins/catchments? (would it be best to try to focus on those possible areas, or to allocate a number of days looking for tahr in a specific area, and allocate the other days looking for chamois in a specifically chamois area?)

- Is the hunting/hunting pressure/quality of animals that much better in the balloted areas than the non-balloted areas?

- Do the body sizes/trophy quality/ genetics (particularly for tahr & chamois) vary much from basin to basin, or from the west coast to east? (e.g. I read somewhere that the tahr on the west coast are much bigger in body than farther east - true, or no)?

- Are pelts "prime" from May on? June on?

- Does the weather get more consistent as you go into winter? I prefer snow to rain, FWIW.

- Would a good time of year to plan to come over be late May/early June to catch the end of the Chamois rut, and peak of the Tahr rut? Or are the animals moving so much during that time that the rut could actually be more challenging than slightly past peak of rut as they focus in more on feeding again?

- Due to weather concerns over that short of a window of time, would it make more sense to plan for Canterbury region hunts than the west coast?

- Are there any other major factors I should be considering during my planning?

Any feedback that any of you could provide would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I'm definitely no expert but happy to answer what I can:

There are bow hunters in NZ who regularily get onto Tahr - I think more in the west coast though (more scrub to stalk in with) follow MontyNixon on instagram for example. Obviously easier with the rifle - that will have to be up to you.

Don't need to have the Tahr balloted areas to get into good tahr especially if you will be getting flown into a spot, tbh that might just complicate things - I've not been to one yet however we have a balloted area for later this year (Abel lake).

The weather here can be pretty feral throughout the whole year.. its MEANT to be more consistent summer and winter but we've just had a pretty mental summer. Hard to say.

Tahr and Chamois skins are best in Winter yes for sure.

If I was coming from the states I would look to have several spots to potentially hunt if the weather came in. We often get a ton of weather systems hitting the west coast but the east can be much less affected (i.e. have a back up plan or two on the east side of the main divide).

there are official guides...and unofficial ones,eg fellas doing it as a side hussle so they earn a bit of pocket money and get out and about still.
there are a few fellas on here who fall into latter catagouri...... if your paying for the flying boot leather saver,that in itself may well be enough to tempt someone to take yo uand show you whats what..and possibly supply a rifle to use between you...that would be insurance as big hairy goats and a stick n string falls into expert territory.... @Smokey jason may chime in here with luck

Shooting a Tahr/Chamois with a bow in your time frame is quite achievable. Shooting a mature bull Tahr and buck Chamois may be another matter. A rifle would give you far more options on where to hunt and opportunities to take an animal. This may not necessarily mean bringing your own though.
There are areas where chamois and tahr (and red deer) co-exist. Makes for a more interesting hunt in my eyes.
Winter for skins for sure.
Best advice would be to select a number of different options (east and west coast) and have the ability to change plans as the weather dictates. Most heli operators don't need much notice to flick you into the hills.
There will no doubt be a number of forum members who are a lot more knowledgeable that I am who can offer advice and probably be able to help you out once you are in NZ. Keep in touch with the forum and a plan will fall into place.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

there are official guides...and unofficial ones,eg fellas doing it as a side hussle so they earn a bit of pocket money and get out and about still.
there are a few fellas on here who fall into latter catagouri...... if your paying for the flying boot leather saver,that in itself may well be enough to tempt someone to take yo uand show you whats what..and possibly supply a rifle to use between you...that would be insurance as big hairy goats and a stick n string falls into expert territory.... @Smokey jason may chime in here with luck

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to having someone share the ride since I plan to fly in anyway to save time, especially if it would help to shorten the overall learning curve... Thanks for the suggestion.

I've just been through the process of lending a young guy with a visitors permit a rifle and would be happy to do so again.

If possible I'd try and be flexible on return dates, it'll cost more but nothing in comparison to coming again if the weather is truly shite.

Given the criteria you have set out, here's my thoughts. all else aside the Tahr ballot is your best option for a fly in bull tahr. the core blocks with highest returns will see you with really good chances. Having shot Tahr and chamois with both compound and longbow, The west coast scrub and broken country makes it easier to get close, but, Recovery can at times be difficult. What I would do is try get a ballot, and build in a back up plan as well if because if the weather is shit its not worth heading in even if you can. Also most North American and European hunters, except alaskan and coastal Canadian, do not realise how incredibly wet it can be.
Id try for a ballot, if successful work your timing to do it at the start of your trip so that you have some built in leeway if you can't fly out on time due to weather, If it all gos well and you still have a spare week, talk to James Scott at Karangarua about flying onto the tops for a chamois. You will need a partner for the ballot and anyway I don't suggest hunting any of that country alone.

Yep as others have said, it is doable to hunt with the bow. But also I have spent quite a few trips where I came home empty handed too. If you are happy to use a rifle, then explore that option and look at bringing your own rifle over. You have time to go through the process. Im on the coast and can supply you with storage etc if you need it.

Hi Timberdoodle,
its nice to see someone come along who has obviously already done some good research into conditions, dates and locations and DOC before asking questions.
I can't help you much as I'm northisland based.
The guide I used when I went down for a tahr hunt was of the option that West coast tahr did have thicker hide from more time busting though snow and ice.
Z

Thanks for all of your responses so far. Super helpful, and I really appreciate the insights & advice.

As far as finding potential spots, does the SPOT-X book generally get people in the ballpark of where they can start to burn boot-leather & glass trying to find game? Same question for the DOC hunting block finder? Or, would it just be best to tell the heli pilot to drop me where they've seen concentrations of game, and not concentrations of people?

I have a few different tents I could bring. If you were to get flown into the tops & dropped for a week, would you want a seek outside 6 man tipi with or without titanium stove (I've seen it hold up to 90kph winds with good anchors & secured guy lines) for a comfortable base, or an argali absaroka 4p with/without Ti Stove for a hot tent with a little bit lower profile & ease of transport, or just a neat & easy TarpTent Scarp2 to keep things simple?

https://seekoutside.com/6-person-tipi-pre
https://argalioutdoors.com/en-ca/col...44094762516709
https://www.tarptent.com/product/scarp-2/

Originally Posted by Timberdoodle

Thanks for all of your responses so far. Super helpful, and I really appreciate the insights & advice.

As far as finding potential spots, does the SPOT-X book generally get people in the ballpark of where they can start to burn boot-leather & glass trying to find game? Same question for the DOC hunting block finder? Or, would it just be best to tell the heli pilot to drop me where they've seen concentrations of game, and not concentrations of people?

I have a few different tents I could bring. If you were to get flown into the tops & dropped for a week, would you want a seek outside 6 man tipi with or without titanium stove (I've seen it hold up to 90kph winds with good anchors & secured guy lines) for a comfortable base, or an argali absaroka 4p with/without Ti Stove for a hot tent with a little bit lower profile & ease of transport, or just a neat & easy TarpTent Scarp2 to keep things simple?

https://seekoutside.com/6-person-tipi-pre
https://argalioutdoors.com/en-ca/col...44094762516709
https://www.tarptent.com/product/scarp-2/

Others covering your questions quite well.

But I’ll just add in don’t have the expectation that using a helicopter is getting you off the beaten path- more so on the West Coast. Once you exclude national parks and wilderness areas (outside the ballots), then take into account the actual amount of spots a helicopter can land in the remaining terrain within the tahr distribution then there is only really a finite amount of spots they can drop you. The heli operators are definitely a good bet to put you onto an area with animals and when on a limited time frame it saves beating the feet. But my point is don’t expect to be getting dropped into some rarely hunted catchment.

Is there somewhere with info on where they can drop you and where they can't?
Can you ask to be dropped anywhere providing they can physically land there?

I've always walked and haven't flown in so I'm not really aware of the rules. Apart from ballot areas I don't know much else. You mentioned National parks as no landing zones??? I know they fly to places like Christmas Flat hut in the Karangarua.

National parks have limited landings per day and wilderness areas have no flying or landing or huts.

Originally Posted by MtnMan

Is there somewhere with info on where they can drop you and where they can't?
Can you ask to be dropped anywhere providing they can physically land there?

I've always walked and haven't flown in so I'm not really aware of the rules. Apart from ballot areas I don't know much else. You mentioned National parks as no landing zones??? I know they fly to places like Christmas Flat hut in the Karangarua.

In all honesty best bet would be to speak with a heli operator to get firm information.

You can’t be just dropped anywhere even if they could land there.

Generally, no landing in national parks from my understanding, but operators will have concessions to land in certain places of the park but not just wherever you want, so you can take advantage of it, for example glacier viewing landings. Yeah re Christmas flat I would assume there’s concessions there, I know you can land in the Douglas too. However, I don’t believe you can land anywhere in the Copland…


I sometimes use the tahr ballot maps and a map of national park boundaries to understand where is off limits.

My comment probably a bit of a generalisation, but the point I was trying to articulate was don’t expect a helicopter drop off to mean you are hunting somewhere that’s rarely hunted… Christmas flat a great example. Gets hunted plenty, not to say that means it’s a bad spot as I understand it plenty of animals there.

All three potential areas that have been listed in original post (landsborough, Mt Cook, fox glacier) all have limitations on where you could actually get dropped off due to wilderness zones/ national parks.

timber doodle -dont know if you can access via internet but NZ hunting shows like "red stag timber hunters club" show some very good footage of alpine hunts on both animals with bow and rifle.likewise google Greg &Willy Duley -anothe r very informative NZ tv hunting series which gives you a hell of a lot of valuable info not only the hunting process but also weather patterns differing habitats etc etc .

Just to cover your top priority about coming home safely, I would second one of the above comments about not going alone. Both the terrain and the weather can be extremely wild down there and it doesn't take much to go wrong, most NZ hunters wouldn't do a trip like that solo so I'd say someone hunting here for the first time definitely shouldn't. Either way you should hire a PLB for your trip