Thread: Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies..

For those of you that are interested...

Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies - NZ Herald

"The Trump administration says it will allow the importation of body parts from African elephants shot for sport, contending that encouraging wealthy big-game hunters to kill them will aid the vulnerable species."

Good to see sanity prevailing over hysteria and sensationalism for a change.




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So who is really responsible for all that shit...TRUMP???.....I think not

Kinda chickshit of me to post the above statement without elaborating.I have a close friend of mine,From Zimbabwe,flew For the Zim Govt,in its protection,surveillance programme.To cut a long story short,as this could be a very interesting debate,he firmly believes,as there are several sides of thought,that the legal and conservation side of this issue in taking this game go hand in hand.The monies garnished from this is in turn stop the biggest issues of poaching.

The poaching issue is what creates an illegal black market ( which will never stop)as Asians ( not being prejudiced here)are the largest purveyors of this product.My mate firmly believes with deeper pockets,the protection of these animals is enhanced due more feet on the ground,drones,aircraft,infra-red etc,watching these animals.

I’m not a blowing Trumps horn here,I’m not sure of the details of this agreement as they are still coming out.But one thing is for sure,controlled hunting ,the money it brings and conservation and management practices in the hands of those who know what they are doing,can’t be a bad thing.As it stands now,these Govts,lack bad,y needed funds.

I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).

Originally Posted by Rushy

I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).

People who go out in the roar are Trophy Hunters. Looking for the best Stag they can find to hang it's skull and antlers on the wall. A big beautiful red is just as magestic as an elephant. I fail to see the difference

Originally Posted by Paddy79

People who go out in the roar are Trophy Hunters. Looking for the best Stag they can find to hang it's skull and antlers on the wall. A big beautiful red is just as magestic as an elephant. I fail to see the difference

Simply put paddy, and I'm not trying to start an argument but a red stag magnificent or not, is classed as a pest in New Zealand and is not a threatened species.........especially when I shoot at them.......

Originally Posted by Scouser

Simply put paddy, and I'm not trying to start an argument but a red stag magnificent or not, is classed as a pest in New Zealand and is not a threatened species.........especially when I shoot at them.......

Elephants are not threatened in these areas, in fact they have organised culls to take pressure off the local villages etc. If these organised hunts don't happen, the local authorities often simply don't get paid (sometimes for months and months) and turn poacher to pay their way. First thing they go for are valuable stuff - pretty pelts and rhino horn etc, the chinese ask no questions. Simply put: No paid hunts, it all comes crashing down.

Originally Posted by Rushy

I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).

Fair call Rushy and I can see why people are opposed to trophy hunting.

That said, who are we to sit here in our first world country, shooting whatever we like and justifying it by saying we will eat it or it’s a pest, but vilifying someone who does it in Africa because it is a different animal to what we shoot/eat/farm etc.
As said above, this country is full of trophy hunters chasing stags.

Despite the anti poaching side of it, which is a very valid argument, there is also the matter of making the animals valuable as a commodity to their “owners.”
What is generally not understood is that nearly all hunting in Africa is done on private gamefarms or on concessions which are tribal land and contracted to safari outfits.
Hunting quotas are actively managed in these areas by the farmer (no farmer would ever kill all their stock) or be the outfit who then answers to the tribal council, that are also required to do anti poaching patrols, clear snares, employ tribespeople as game scouts and actively manage the hunting stock.
One of the big responsibilities of the hunting outfits is to manage problem animals that destroy crops and kill tribespeople.
Most of the meat and some of the trophy fees go to the tribe and provide income for infrastructure, food and clean water.

Most animals that are classed as “threatened” like lions and elephants are due to habitat destruction, they are in fact overpopulated in many areas for the land area.

Take away the revenue from hunting, as these are not areas that will be frequented by photo safari clients, and you take away the animals value, they become more valuable as food than as a commodity. That are seen as crop raiding pests and threats and get slaughtered for meat and ivory and protection of livestock, the Bush gets cleared to plant more crops and grow grass to feed livestock.
No patrols mean the bush gets full of snares and thousands of animals die a painful death.

For the gamefarmer this also means a loss of income and he must change his farming practice to crops or livestock, again, habitat destruction which is the main threat to conservation.

Look at Kenya, since they banned hunting, the funds dried up and the poachers moved in, their wildlife has been decimated .


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A friend of mine recently returned from a hunting trip to Botswana, it is in his opinion is expensive, highly regulated, and necessary for animal welfare.
Where he hunted antelope species and zebra numbers were very high so these were the main targets for paid hunts. Elephant nos were low and were not on the list but were still in other areas not that he was interested (or could afford it).
Interestingly the head guide told him that uncontrolled trophy hunting for apex predators in the last 20 years was responsible for overpopulation.
There are a few skins coming home and a wart hog head which should confuse the pig hunters.

Good call Rushy,and ditto to paddy.Rushy,last year I was on contract with Airbus,with an Oz mate of mine,we were contracted to deliver Airbus Aircraft to various parts of the world.We delivered 2 Airbus 319,s,one to Harare Zimbabwe,the other to Kampala Uganda.To go all that way and not see the sights and to the Kiwi tiki tour seemed stupid.

We both opted for the Bush tours,through their national parks,an awesome spectacle,by any standards.The subject came up continuously about the horrendous poaching that goes on,and their inability to defend these animals to poachers.The govts,of both countries lacking in money and manpower,and that has since been changing due to the influx of high paying shooting visitors taking “TROPHY”game.Im like you,not interested in taking trophy’s,but the choices are being made,and high dollar trophy hunting is giving these people money to defend these animals,track and sometimes shoot poachers,and provide the nessacery resources to make protection easier,.....the world we now live in,and it’s realities.Paddy makes a great point,with regards to trophy hunters anywhere.

Don't believe for a second that orange oompah loompah has the interests of conservation at heart - he doesn't have the attention span to read any briefing longer than one page....
This is nothing but a distraction for some unpalatable changes or some unpleasant news about to break (think Russia probe? Trump's own Weinstein/Spacey moment...) yet people snap it up like it's top of the offal pit/....

Originally Posted by Nickoli

Don't believe for a second that orange oompah loompah has the interests of conservation at heart - he doesn't have the attention span to read any briefing longer than one page....
This is nothing but a distraction for some unpalatable changes or some unpleasant news about to break (think Russia probe? Trump's own Weinstein/Spacey moment...) yet people snap it up like it's top of the offal pit/....

Whatever it may be, it doesn’t change the fact that it is still a step in the right direction for conservation in Africa, despite what the media wants us all to think.


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Lol.....take the weekend off mate....Trump is not the subject here,try and get past that....most of us don't give a fuck about trump....the subject of trophy hunting,poaching etc is real,when you have actually seen it,then it hits home.

There’s always politics involved in issues like this

Originally Posted by Nickoli

Don't believe for a second that orange oompah loompah has the interests of conservation at heart - he doesn't have the attention span to read any briefing longer than one page....
This is nothing but a distraction for some unpalatable changes or some unpleasant news about to break (think Russia probe? Trump's own Weinstein/Spacey moment...) yet people snap it up like it's top of the offal pit/....

Originally Posted by A330driver

Lol.....take the weekend off mate....Trump is not the subject here,try and get past that....most of us don't give a fuck about trump....the subject of trophy hunting,poaching etc is real,when you have actually seen it,then it hits home.

There’s always politics involved in issues like this

Point taken - good conversation, but it really is just a distraction.