Thread: Farmer lying about paper road?

I want to access a block thats only accessible by a paper road (shown clearly on WAMS) I contacted DOC who couldn't help with what the go to was. They did say they had accessed it to do goat control through the station with the paper road through it.

The stations private tracks dont follow the paper road the whole way but the paper road is along a fairly easy to follow course.

I contacted the station to ask whether i could have permission to access the block via their track rather than jumping their fences for the sake of walking 2 yards of the track. The owner, who is either misinformed or blatantly lying to me told me that there is not paper road and that its all private and access is from the other side via some creek (whos name doesn't exist). He also said they dont allow access via their property as its a game park and they have had issues previously.

Well im going to try ring DOC once more and confirm that their is no other access but id like to get peoples opinions on this.

On another note I can see they have a track they have made that runs right through the DOC block and appears to be cut to allow them to drive to key glassing points (turn around bays at these points) I would have though this to be illegal on public land. This is what grinds my gears as denying access on their private tracks is there prerogative but lying about a paper road and then having an presumably illegal track they presumably are using to make this doc block a pseudo game park (that they pay nothing for) is whats upset me a touch.

Sounds like you are trying to access the Waihopai... ?

@muzza Yes. Sometimes paper roads are what they call "stopped" by councils and they lose their special status.

Personally, I don't think that challenging farmers about paper roads is worth the fuss. Creates angst all round.

I looked at this about a year ago. Wasn't for hunting access though, was for other reasons.

Read this https://www.walkingaccess.govt.nz/kn...d-legal-roads/

It's a matter of determining which body is responsible for the ULR and talk to them. Maybe that is DOC in your case?

If you do stick with your rights and access the URL you need to be very sure that you are on the URL and not on the private adjoining property. Determining this could be difficult.

Some, (not all) farmers will deny the existence. Not sure I blame them for this given the mayhem that could occur with some types of people accessing.

Originally Posted by Hahn

Sounds like you are trying to access the Waihopai... ?

Not going to comment on location as if I have to battle to get access I don't want it advertised hahaha

Originally Posted by Tahr

@muzza Yes. Sometimes paper roads are what they call "stopped" by councils and they lose their special status.

Personally, I don't think that challenging farmers about paper roads is worth the fuss. Creates angst all round.

Good info to know. And I don't agree if they want that pseudo private land they can buy it of the public at the rate it would go for as station/hunting lease block rates. If the guys benefitting financially off it and won't be allowing hunting access to anyone anyway whats the lost case. Its not like I'm challenging him to hunt his own private land it's public land.

Originally Posted by zimmer

I looked at this about a year ago. Wasn't for hunting access though, was for other reasons.

Read this https://www.walkingaccess.govt.nz/kn...d-legal-roads/

It's a matter of determining which body is responsible for the ULR and talk to them. Maybe that is DOC in your case?

If you do stick with your rights and access the URL you need to be very sure that you are on the URL and not on the private adjoining property. Determining this could be difficult.

Some, (not all) farmers will deny the existence. Not sure I blame them for this given the mayhem that could occur with some types of people accessing.

I have marked the centre line in my phone and downloaded the map. There are very obvious landmarks the whole way it's probably the nicest paper Road I have seen in terms of being able to follow.

I have most of the ULR stuff but will have to check with the council to make sure the legal road still exists. Even just using the block as a pseudo game park is shit regardless of restricting access.

I understand the farmers point of veiw that people are a pain in the arse and plenty are shit but I'm not a beleiever in lying about things just to avoid a hassle. We allow hunters on our farm (no public anywhere near) to shoot small game and if you know someone we know we may let you hunt pheasants but we don't allow pig hunters or deer hunters except by invitation as we have a very low population of each and with poaching nuking the deer we have only shoot one deer in the last 4 years trying to up the numbers a bit. We tell guys that's why we don't let guys hunt big game and access is only while we are around not make up some yarn.

WAMS update the legality of ULR reasonably frequently. One I know of stopped showing in purple a couple of years ago. Got 'traded' from us to an Iwi re Waitangi tribunal recompense I believe.

WAMS is a pretty good bet. Also may pay to lodge a query with the WAMS website re that piece of ULR in purple. They seem to come back with an answer within 24 hours.

If it is a paper road, the farmer purchased the property knowing full well it ran through his place. Its NOT his land, its ours. He does not pay rates on said piece of dirt, but gets to eat the grass for free. GPS's are very accurate these days. Stand your ground.

Originally Posted by mimms2

That takes a fair bit of doing. Govt don't like conceding anything. Fulla over the back spent 6+ years and how many hours/dollars trynig to have the paper road over his place closed.
(Got it in the end, but still open to locals, just no longer to fuckwits)

As to the OP... a "road" is legally defined as "any place the public have access, whether as of right or not"
It's my understanding that it is illegal for a land/title holder to block access to a road, including a paper one.
Being said, just because it's on a SAR map, does not mean it is legally a "paper road"

The paper road is on the walking access maps public access layer. It's fall between the private property boundaries. There is almost always one legal access to public land whether that is actually accessible on foot is another question. I understand if it is in fact a unformed legal road then he can't stop me using it for access as long as I don't damage his property, trespass, or harass stock.

He hasn't tried to block access rather than say it doesn't exist.

It is also illegal to block a paper road. I.e fence, locked gate, dozed heferlump trap etc etc. Again yeah as a farmer I understand managing stock etc etc, but it is simply not his land to fence/block.

Often the paper roads were drawn up two centurys ago (sometimes by suveyors not even in NZ) to ensure legal access to all sorts of remote locations, as the Govt intended every man and his dog to be sold some shite land, and slave and thrash themselves half to death to turn it into productive farm land to earn the Dominion export $$

As @Tahr observed, these matters can often involve a heap of angst.....however, if it is still a ULR then I have no doubt you are legally entitled to use it. A point that always intrigues me a little is the assertion that if you do use the URL without the cocky's consent 'you'd better be sure you remain on it...'. I'd have expected the onus to be on the cocky to establish you were off the ULR, and on his land before legal action could be upheld? As suggested, I'd enquire of the WAC, and the local Council.....they are almost always the 'owners' of land under roads, formed or otherwise. (unless its a Maori roadway)

I imagine DoC will be able to confirm whether he has a concesion to use the adjoining PCL, and what the terms of that might be?

Walking Access is your best bet. Their maps are up to date and if it shows there is a ULR, then there is a ULR. It will only be taken off the WAMS maps if it is disposed of to somebody. No point in talking to DoC cos they just plain dont you want you there anyways. And they dont have any ULR's - its is public land vested in to the good of NZ, many years ago, to allow the ordinary people access to places.
There is a local Canterbury representative for WAMS, and he/she will look in to it and keep you updated on progress. He/she will also go in to bat for you if the landowner on either side of the ULR wants to be a prick about it.
I was one of many that had issues with some local access to fishing water, and there is a ULR that follows the original path of the waterway. Over the years some parts of the waterway have changed so basically it meanders across the ULR, on to it, off of it etc etc. The local WAMS guy was happy to give me the GPS coordinates to follow so that I could legally walk across open land from each stretch of the waterway that was still within the ULR.

Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect haha it was for sale earlier this year, not sure who bought it though. But a lot of those land owners won't let people have access. Deer stalkers got permission to land for a cull on one property, the neighbors threatened to cut off the guys drinking water. All rumor and hearsay of course. Easiest way is to fly over top, and it's definitely worth it if you do. Even if this place isn't where I'm thinking, the same thoughts and resistance likely apply.

a GPS is your best friend.....they show roads...and tell you where you are..... been down this myself many years ago...we were on both sides of fence so to speak.....

Originally Posted by XR500

WAMS update the legality of ULR reasonably frequently. One I know of stopped showing in purple a couple of years ago. Got 'traded' from us to an Iwi re Waitangi tribunal recompense I believe.

WAMS is a pretty good bet. Also may pay to lodge a query with the WAMS website re that piece of ULR in purple. They seem to come back with an answer within 24 hours.

If it is a paper road, the farmer purchased the property knowing full well it ran through his place. Its NOT his land, its ours. He does not pay rates on said piece of dirt, but gets to eat the grass for free. GPS's are very accurate these days. Stand your ground.

As the population grows, this topic increases steadily. Even in the once tranquil Ohura, we're seeing this come to the fore.