Thread: Farmer lying about paper road?

A few things - better to email DOC/WAMS/Councils so you have a written reply. A phone call may be good to start things off but you cannot fall back on who said what. Being a member with the NZDA - especially in the South Island - they have an Access Committee that work through these types of issues using through official channels so may have already dealt with this particular case?

Originally Posted by mimms2

You're talking chinese now... "public access layer"??


Well then I'd say you have every legal, and most lawful right to access it.

Of course this wont help you if the guy's a wanker and will shoot your dogs. But it would be good for the common if you could publically formalise/acknowledge the right of access.
Not sure how best to approach it,. from this side of the computer screen...

The guy may well have had guys up there poaching or rustling before, and it's so much easier to say "get fucked" than file insurance claims on that shit.

Worst comes to it, I'd tell him you have every right to access there, tell him every time you go on, and when you leave. But ideally you want him on side. How you do that...I dunno.

theres a layer that shows property parcel boundaries, and one that highlights existing public access areas such as paper roads, hyrdo parcels (queens chain type stuff).

[QUOTE=Hahn;1245641]Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect

Yes - I think I know the location and Land owner too
I know two guys who where taken to Court over it
Both fronted up on Court day with Lawyer and Land owner dropped the case 2 minutes before the start of the case
Mr E - I imagine ?????

[QUOTE=Sarvo;1245669]

Originally Posted by Hahn

Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect

Yes - I think I know the location and Land owner too
I know two guys who where taken to Court over it
Both fronted up on Court day with Lawyer and Land owner dropped the case 2 minutes before the start of the case
Mr E - I imagine ?????

There must be more to the story than that?
Before getting to the court stage a tresspass notice must be issued, either verbally or in writing. But of course if they weren't actually on his land......

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

Wams came to fruition when the govt put land access in the to hard basket and gave it to the councils to run. Local council is the place to go to sort this out. Ask him to trespass you and if he wont you are on the right track so to speak.

not within moral right at all..... agree 100% dumbfuckery by joe public is pain in your arse,,,BUT its a legal access road...you cannot legally block it...
I see it all the time up on station I visit,hoons roaring up road get heck of a shock when the big truck doesnt move over but instead stops right in middle of road....the shepherds have been known to "accidentaly " place hot wire onto gate dog....... but that backfires too as people will leave gate open once it is open....

the safari farm we backed onto fenced off public road but had to leave smaller sprung gate in fence for walking access.....annoyed heck out of folks wanting to horse trek........and it got nasty enough because of it.

if cocky looks at it other way and marks the public road with poles etc.....well it works other way,majority of people stick to poled route.....

Originally Posted by hdc

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

You don't need to ask for permission to access a paper road although it is good to be courteous. I get that you are affected by it but good, moral people shouldn't be affected by the ferals. I certainly would use the paper road regardless of shitty poachers

As for the OP. I'd call 105 and let them know that you are accessing a paper road across private land and that you are not trespassing. Then go and exercise your right to public land. public land is not private land no matter what a farmer says or desires it to be.

I realize this will wind some people right up, but I am coming at this from the perspective of the farmer, rather than the person wanting to go up the public road. All they are trying to do is make a living off the land, and there is nothing worse than having to try and shed off ewes and lambs in the paddock because some idiot has gone for a wander up the paper road and left the gates open, boxing up the mobs. When people head up the paper road in their little Skoda hatchbacks because the GPS said they could go that way, and you have to tow them out of a bog you wouldn't even drive the hilux through, it starts to annoy. I realize that legally you may have the right to go up there, but that doesn't mean you always should. You know the saying, once bitten twice shy. That is how most farmers feel about public access, after a few fuckwits ruin it for everyone else.

that skoda....you charge $50 or it stays there...and you dont put ewes n lambs in that paddock...you know will be an issue so you just dont do it.

its a two way street...... piss enough people off by denying access and some will dig toes in harder...that fence that is across legal road??? out with bolt cutters as its illigal to have it there without unlocked gate or at least a style to cross.....
once bitten twice shy also goes both ways.....Joe public decides to have street party outside your letterbox stopping you going into town.and you would be first to call coppers.......its the same thing.

@Micky Duck we will have to agree to disagree aye

Originally Posted by hdc

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

No your being a wanker.

Its a bit like me parking my Dozer across your driveway and saying " you dont need to use that public road when you can just drive acrosd your paddocks".

Taupo Deer Stalkers battled for years over Poronui now it doesn't seem to be an issue to make it work.

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Whoa I am not a farmer but I m definitely with hdc on this one. I know several farmers who have tracks running through their property that enable access to public DOC land and the shit they have to put up with is deplorable. Shit-heads damaging private property ruining it for others is a constant for some of those guys. Others have to constantly field phone calls from people wanting access and keep tabs on who is going out there organise keys health and safety sign in/sign etc and they are often dragged into it when accidents/breakdowns/stucks occur. Yet these farmers if you don't dick them around are generally excellent to deal with.

Most of us probably know of a few places we'd like to get access to but we have been refused. Some of us have had yo yo-ing access to places over the years dependant upon who is managing/owning the place at any given time. If access is refused I just move on -access is never a given even to certain parts of DOC land and for private land it changes over time. When you strike an impasse if DOC can't give you a solid legal access option it's best just to move on and try somewhere else. The angst and hassle isn't worth it you are better off investing your effort elsewhere and focussing on the positive opportunities rather than grinding your teeth.-

Some farmers really take the piss though, if its not public access they are blocking off then its them quietly expanding the paddocks further and further into the doc land.

I would drop a note in their mailbox stating your intent, and confirming you have the GPS coords of the paper road and you have confirmed the legal status of it as a courtesy, then just go for it.