Farmer lying about paper road?

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13-11-2021, 09:17 AM
erniec

I heard that the same thing happened here on Tuaropaki (Mokai)
13-11-2021, 09:25 AM
Flyblown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stocky

I think you would find most hunters support better punishments for poachers and hate them as they are a huge part of the reason people struggle with issues like this. It's a joke those guys we caught in film got a trespass notice and that was it no seizure of boat, firearms, etc. But that's a seperate issue.

But it’s not a separate issue mate. It’s the other side of the same coin.

Farmers see poachers, trespassers, vandals and thieves getting fuck all comeuppance, so what do you think that does to their attitudes?

We end up in a situation where there is no enforcement of law on either side of the problem, and some individuals decide to mete out their own forms of bush justice.
13-11-2021, 10:36 AM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stocky

You are absolutely correct I guess I just think poorly of liers. (hence why I dislike most politicians) he may come around the next time I get in touch who knows but his lack of acceptance suggests he may give me issues in terms of vandalising my vehicle or trying to call the police on me due to his entitlement.
There are reasons for the opinions of both sides and I acknowledge them but only one is correct and moral. If ones livelihood is so solely relying on people not using land that one does not even own then maybe they need to improve their business. I too know some terrible stories including a friend of ours finding 2 cyclists with a big tent setup in his paddock. That after talking to them said that it was fine they could stay the night and to just take their rubbish the next morning. We'll they had shot a cow set the tent up over it to cover it until that night when evidently the cut the fence and used a chainsaw to break it down and take it away leaving the head, guts, and a poor butchered frame. He doesnt think all cyclist are poachers now which is how some farmers treat hunters.

I agree.

With some of the farmers I know / knew, it is not once or twice...it is almost every other weekend and an ongoing challenge hence their view, be it distorted or not....
13-11-2021, 10:54 AM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

A friend of mine who works at the local council told me that when the council receives an application to close a ULR, if there has been no public use or interest in that road recorded by the council, closure will be approved with the stroke of a pen and not need to be gazetted.

What is the importance and implication of the above ? In application the landowner, if they can bluff and exclude the public from using the section of public land that is the road (ULR), can at no cost convert a public asset to freehold title. So a 20mtr wide ULR stretching one kilometer is two hectares and will have a value of between $20,000 and $100,000 commonly. A form of legalised squatters rights / land grab.
This is land that was excluded from the original farm purchase but that they have occupied and earnt income off for years and can now sell with the property

Dont be fooled that this is a rare occurrence, and bs it is common now since Tenor Review.

A parallel would be a gang with HQ next to a council reserve in town occupying the reserve, fencing it off and applying to the council for the reserve to be added to their adjoining freehold title because the public havent used it for years

I have to disagree with the parallel you have drawn here. In the cases I know of it would be more like having a public walkway / cycle lane beside your property, and burglars using it to access your property to steal your stuff, or motorcyclists using it as a skid pad on a Saturday night. But with one difference - you would be responsible for maintenance of the walkway and NOT the council......

Or in your example if it was not a gang next to the reserve, but instead it was your place, and every weekend you had to spend a couple hours mowing the grass there and picking up all the rubbish and carcasses left there...Sure it is council land, but they dont do anything. As I mentioned before, we have a fairly substantial paper road next to us and the neighbouring properties. The developer offered to landscape it into a birdlane / reserve as part of the subdivision, but while the council was not against the idea in principle, the roading division liked it as it meant it was no longer responsible for it (it did no maintenance anyway so it was no skin off their nose), Parks division objected vigourously against it as it would then have to maintain it as a reserve with no additional funding so it was declined and was left as a paper road. Apart from the local farmer mowing it twice a year for hay,that is all. It receives no attention from the council unless it is pointed out that it is becoming a fire risk. The local residents including myself, now mow it themselves just to keep it from becoming a fire risk or source of pestilence and so people can walk it if they desire. To give you and idea, when I first called to enquire about who is responsible for the paper road, the council replied "The land owner whose fence it is inside, is responsible as they get the use of it. But the developer was not ALLOWED to put the fences around the paper road and it is OUTSIDE of our fence. To give you an idea of size, this paper road is 300m long, and for the most part, about 10m wide with a narrow pinch point that is about 3 feet wide not far from the main road where it starts meaning it is a reasonable piece of land to be mowing.......especially when we cannot use it for anything else...Oh and the real kicker....I can build a structure within 2 metres of my boundary EXCEPT from the road frontage which has a 10 metre setback.....and the BACK of my section has the same 10m set back as the paper road counts as "road" in the consents division so if I want to make a garden shed I dont need a building consent due to its small size, but I do need a resource consent because I want to put within 10m of my back fence.....
13-11-2021, 01:08 PM
Moa Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by timattalon

I have to disagree with the parallel you have drawn here. In the cases I know of it would be more like having a public walkway / cycle lane beside your property, and burglars using it to access your property to steal your stuff, or motorcyclists using it as a skid pad on a Saturday night. But with one difference - you would be responsible for maintenance of the walkway and NOT the council......

Or in your example if it was not a gang next to the reserve, but instead it was your place, and every weekend you had to spend a couple hours mowing the grass there and picking up all the rubbish and carcasses left there...Sure it is council land, but they dont do anything. As I mentioned before, we have a fairly substantial paper road next to us and the neighbouring properties. The developer offered to landscape it into a birdlane / reserve as part of the subdivision, but while the council was not against the idea in principle, the roading division liked it as it meant it was no longer responsible for it (it did no maintenance anyway so it was no skin off their nose), Parks division objected vigourously against it as it would then have to maintain it as a reserve with no additional funding so it was declined and was left as a paper road. Apart from the local farmer mowing it twice a year for hay,that is all. It receives no attention from the council unless it is pointed out that it is becoming a fire risk. The local residents including myself, now mow it themselves just to keep it from becoming a fire risk or source of pestilence and so people can walk it if they desire. To give you and idea, when I first called to enquire about who is responsible for the paper road, the council replied "The land owner whose fence it is inside, is responsible as they get the use of it. But the developer was not ALLOWED to put the fences around the paper road and it is OUTSIDE of our fence. To give you an idea of size, this paper road is 300m long, and for the most part, about 10m wide with a narrow pinch point that is about 3 feet wide not far from the main road where it starts meaning it is a reasonable piece of land to be mowing.......especially when we cannot use it for anything else...Oh and the real kicker....I can build a structure within 2 metres of my boundary EXCEPT from the road frontage which has a 10 metre setback.....and the BACK of my section has the same 10m set back as the paper road counts as "road" in the consents division so if I want to make a garden shed I dont need a building consent due to its small size, but I do need a resource consent because I want to put within 10m of my back fence.....

Are you quite sure that next to your property is a ULR or is it just a parcel of council land designated to roading ? The standard for a road is a minimum 'chain' or 66 feet - 20 metres. Your parcel is only 10 metres tapering to 1 metre so cannot be a road as such only an access right of way or sum such. Fence it off, park Harleys on it and patrol it with gang members and see how much the public use it. Then you can apply to the council to 'take it over' for them
13-11-2021, 04:47 PM
Maxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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Can you explain the bold bit for me please @BRADS ?
13-11-2021, 06:02 PM
XR500

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxx

Can you explain the bold bit for me please @BRADS ?

Someone slides off a paper road and dies, they didn't die on your land. They died on a public road (OK, they might end up on your land, having slid off public land...just like 50% of current road accidents)

Someone slides off one of your farm tracks, but wasn't permitted to be there: HSAW Act 2015 does not apply to the incident.

I fully understand farmer's reticence re permitting the public to cross their land, but it boils down to: A paper road is not their land. End of story.
13-11-2021, 06:09 PM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Are you quite sure that next to your property is a ULR or is it just a parcel of council land designated to roading ? The standard for a road is a minimum 'chain' or 66 feet - 20 metres. Your parcel is only 10 metres tapering to 1 metre so cannot be a road as such only an access right of way or sum such. Fence it off, park Harleys on it and patrol it with gang members and see how much the public use it. Then you can apply to the council to 'take it over' for them

Definitely a paper road. And I would not leave a Harley parked where public has access (or thinks it ihas access...) as it would be gone 5 minutes later...
13-11-2021, 08:32 PM
gsp follower

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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nobodies haten on farmers just expectin them to follow the rules like the rest of us.
isnt that fed farmers catch cry to one law for all
19-11-2021, 03:01 PM
NEO

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Ask him what the rates are like for his hunting concession on DOC land (purely because you are thinking of applying for a similar concession, wink wink).
See if the paper road exists after that.

20 maybe 30 dollars my experience.
19-11-2021, 04:17 PM
BRADS

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR500

Someone slides off a paper road and dies, they didn't die on your land. They died on a public road (OK, they might end up on your land, having slid off public land...just like 50% of current road accidents)

Someone slides off one of your farm tracks, but wasn't permitted to be there: HSAW Act 2015 does not apply to the incident.

I fully understand farmer's reticence re permitting the public to cross their land, but it boils down to: A paper road is not their land. End of story.

I think you'll find when that goes to court you'll be had up for not maintaining said paper road to a standard you can drive a swift up it...unfortunately speaking from experience

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19-11-2021, 04:37 PM
XR500

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRADS

I think you'll find when that goes to court you'll be had up for not maintaining said paper road to a standard you can drive a swift up it...unfortunately speaking from experience

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I highly doubt that. HSAW Act specifies that if people are on your land without your authority, culpability does not apply.

But back to the paper road, if a judge is that thick, you simply bring up WAMS, show him the purple bit and say: Its an unformed legal road, not farmland within my title. I am a farmer, not a council and I do not own a road. It simply runs through bits of my farm. Go talk to the council.
19-11-2021, 07:23 PM
NEO

Ok. But if I used their tracks (paper road) undetected and finally they caught me, so what I shall be facing? A charge for trespassing?
19-11-2021, 07:51 PM
XR500

You are mixing up ownership a bit: Often farm tracks may 'sort of' follow a paper road alignment. Therefore you will be trepassing if you do not rigidly stick to the purple alignment shown on WAMS. Which is what makes using paper roads so difficult. Often the terrain means no vehicle could stick to the true paper road alignment, so each time you wander back onto the bit of the track thats on the farmers land, you are tresspassing. If, however you walk or manage to stick ridgidly to the true paper road alignment, you have remained on public land. It may look like farmland, it may smell like farmland, it may taste like farmland, but the purple bit is public road.
27-11-2021, 08:02 AM
T.FOYE

Had a nasty incident happen to me and my buddy and i was shocked at the stupidity of the 'farmers employee'. Im an ex soldier and i really didn't like having some idiot storm up on me with bullshit, bravado and a rifle. The whole situation was reported to the police and bugger all has come of it. This is just lunacy.
27-11-2021, 08:36 AM
XR500

Another example of why the law abiding are having less and less respect for the authorities. When an incident such as this is fobbed off.
27-11-2021, 09:30 AM
Moa Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.FOYE

Had a nasty incident happen to me and my buddy and i was shocked at the stupidity of the 'farmers employee'. Im an ex soldier and i really didn't like having some idiot storm up on me with bullshit, bravado and a rifle. The whole situation was reported to the police and bugger all has come of it. This is just lunacy.

I had a firearm presented at me when I was standing on a formed public road with cars driving past. Not nice. Police did not act, I know this because the bloke still had firearms two years later. I think we should pursue these cases.
What I have done in the past with other situations is visit the local Court and complain to the Registrar that no action has taken place and ask them what to do. This has produced a result ...
27-11-2021, 04:37 PM
Hunteast

With virtually everyone carrying a cell phone on them, surprised a few pics have not surfaced of such drama? A picture tells a thousand words or something like that..
27-11-2021, 06:28 PM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunteast

With virtually everyone carrying a cell phone on them, surprised a few pics have not surfaced of such drama? A picture tells a thousand words or something like that..

But please remember a picture often only tells half the story...and usually the other halfs view point instead of yours...I know this from experience. We had security holding down an aggressive assailant waiting for police to arrive yet the news only showed the security restraining him and deliberately did not show the assailant attacking two females waiting to enter (which is WHY he was restrained in the first place...).It went to court and the security were accused of excessive force. When the FULL security video was shown ALL charges were dismissed but there was never any retraction from the media about them "getting the story wrong". Note that the full video is not legally accessible to the public and was never allowed to be shown apart from being used as evidence or Police / internal affairs investigations.
27-11-2021, 11:03 PM
Hunteast

And then the shop video from the Auckland Gun Shop many years ago showing an assailant entering using a knife to take on the shop staff during a burglary in day time if i remember correct - ended up being shot by the owner but survived. Was a drama for the owner though after court to be fair. What i am indicating is that more footage of similar situations will still go a long way in telling the story to assist in court. Who releases the footage to the media or has the rights to release to media is entirely up to you at the time? Just like car dash cam footage - i used in a car accident when hit front on while on a dirt road to go hunting - the other person not knowing i had dash cam - he told a different story and was caught out when the video was presented later on. I won, he lost. Police viewed but i didn't let them copy it.
28-11-2021, 07:26 AM
bigbear

Getting away from the op but at the start of our road we have a camera's operating sign. All footage we can do what we like with it. Sign had to be back at least a hundred meters from camera's so joe public can turn around if they want with out been on camera.
Also because most of these road camera's are owned privately info can be shared, different story if police paid for cameras
28-11-2021, 08:17 AM
DavidGunn

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbear

Getting away from the op but at the start of our road we have a camera's operating sign. All footage we can do what we like with it. Sign had to be back at least a hundred meters from camera's so joe public can turn around if they want with out been on camera.
Also because most of these road camera's are owned privately info can be shared, different story if police paid for cameras

It's the ones that turn around that really need to be recorded....I would be curious to know where the regulations for cameras is posted as we are giving serious consideration to installing one.
28-11-2021, 10:20 AM
Moa Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunteast

With virtually everyone carrying a cell phone on them, surprised a few pics have not surfaced of such drama? A picture tells a thousand words or something like that..

I had replied to a newspaper add with a scope for sale. After phoning and making an appointment 6:30 pm (winter) I drove to the guys address on Mandeville Road in Ohoka. His name was Lyn Knight. The gate at the road edge property boundary was locked so I called out 'Mr Knight' as I could hear voices in a shed. No reply, then quiet footsteps on the gravel. Me " Hey is that Mr Knight - I've come to look at the scope as arranged" Reply " Just as well you spoke I thought you were trying to break in and was just about to give you a barrel " Appears in the gloom with a 12 gauge pointed at my chin. Him " Well now you are here come and have a look at the scope" Me " You know, I dont think that scope is right for me, thanks very much"
Complained to Police and signed a statement etc. then couldnt believe it when I saw him in a gun shop 12 months later buying a firearm - talked to him and he was still actively using firearms - didnt recognise me.
28-11-2021, 03:52 PM
DavidGunn

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimms2

Pretty sure it's only illegal to record "where people have a reasonable expectation of privacy"
,Pubs for instance, can have a security cam pointing to the dunny door, but couldn't have one in the bathroom.

Thus anything on a public road is fair game (dash cam etc)

I might get caught out then as one particular corner is where the local dope smokers park and spark up, nice spot as they have a clear view for a couple of km's down the road, I call the spot "Tissue Point" but that's another story.
28-11-2021, 05:41 PM
XR500

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I had replied to a newspaper add with a scope for sale. After phoning and making an appointment 6:30 pm (winter) I drove to the guys address on Mandeville Road in Ohoka. His name was Lyn Knight. The gate at the road edge property boundary was locked so I called out 'Mr Knight' as I could hear voices in a shed. No reply, then quiet footsteps on the gravel. Me " Hey is that Mr Knight - I've come to look at the scope as arranged" Reply " Just as well you spoke I thought you were trying to break in and was just about to give you a barrel " Appears in the gloom with a 12 gauge pointed at my chin. Him " Well now you are here come and have a look at the scope" Me " You know, I dont think that scope is right for me, thanks very much"
Complained to Police and signed a statement etc. then couldnt believe it when I saw him in a gun shop 12 months later buying a firearm - talked to him and he was still actively using firearms - didnt recognise me.

Now that is completely fucked. Pointing a firearm at anyone that is not posing an imminent threat to your life (could be a crim, a member of the public or even a Policeman) will see me exhaust all avenues to have them feel the full measure of the law.
28-11-2021, 06:27 PM
tetawa

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidGunn

I might get caught out then as one particular corner is where the local dope smokers park and spark up, nice spot as they have a clear view for a couple of km's down the road, I call the spot "Tissue Point" but that's another story.

Anywhere near "condom corner"
03-01-2022, 08:30 AM
Taupohunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdc

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

I agree that poachers are scum and ruin a lot for everyone. I'm not sure if 4WD access is a legal requirement on paper roads? But, the "legal" paper road is there. Anyone purchasing a farm should have this pointed out by their lawyer.
03-01-2022, 08:36 AM
Taupohunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdc

I realize this will wind some people right up, but I am coming at this from the perspective of the farmer, rather than the person wanting to go up the public road. All they are trying to do is make a living off the land, and there is nothing worse than having to try and shed off ewes and lambs in the paddock because some idiot has gone for a wander up the paper road and left the gates open, boxing up the mobs. When people head up the paper road in their little Skoda hatchbacks because the GPS said they could go that way, and you have to tow them out of a bog you wouldn't even drive the hilux through, it starts to annoy. I realize that legally you may have the right to go up there, but that doesn't mean you always should. You know the saying, once bitten twice shy. That is how most farmers feel about public access, after a few fuckwits ruin it for everyone else.

If I owned a farm with a UPR I would have signs up, clearly mark the route and try to work with people to avoid crap. Yes you are trying to make a living....BUT you have a "legal" paper road running through your farm. If I was to use it, I would contact you first. Give you my details and probably a box of beer to say thanks. Shame more people don't take this approach.
03-01-2022, 08:38 AM
Taupohunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by erniec

Taupo Deer Stalkers battled for years over Poronui now it doesn't seem to be an issue to make it work.

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Thats because it was tested in court. NZDA won!
03-01-2022, 08:58 AM
Taupohunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

Yet you purchased a farm with a legal paper road on it. Best thing ANY farmer can do with a paper road through their farm is clearly mark where you want people to walk. If you have gated/fenced for public safety...put a sign up. 95% of people will treat you right.
03-01-2022, 01:18 PM
hunt08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taupohunter

Yet you purchased a farm with a legal paper road on it. Best thing ANY farmer can do with a paper road through their farm is clearly mark where you want people to walk. If you have gated/fenced for public safety...put a sign up. 95% of people will treat you right.

Year but that 5% can make days of extra work for you though out the year by been dicks how hard is it to shut a blood gate one area I go has lots of cyclists go through & has a big sign That say keep gate closed but it's amazing how often you come along and it's wide open the 1st one leves it open for his mates to shut but his mates come along and see the gate open must be meant to be open so they leave it open & that's the gate between the private & doc land so we always shut it
03-01-2022, 04:15 PM
Padox

Been there had that problem a few times 2 mobs of ewes boxed up ours and the station next door over a days yard work to separate again paper road with big sign to always shut gate and I dont know how many times if found it wide open
03-01-2022, 10:36 PM
andyanimal31

I have mate that had an access track to the ruahines and when doc were been queer he shut it down and doc threatened an cajoled ect.
He was legally entitled to close access and after the stories I have heard I can't blame him for shutting it down.
All I can say there are some very entitled cock heads that fuck it up for the the good bastards.

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03-01-2022, 10:55 PM
DavidGunn

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Don't forget to mention that parts of the poled route are not on the actual "paper" road, which the owners allowed due the terrain being quite difficult for walking.
And that a number of hunters and fishers tried legal action to get the legal road opened up to vehicle access back in the nineties. Which would have had a detrimental affect on the area.
So land owners aren't always pricks, and hunters don't always do what's best.

They did get that old Fordson tractor in and I imagine is still 'in'
04-01-2022, 09:12 AM
199p

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRADS

There is never a more accurate statement some road end farmers are the biggest fuckstains I've ever meet and a embarrassment to the rest of us.
But there in the minority and I feel the farmer hate here is more than a minority.

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Hahaha i can think of at least one who fits the cunt bill just perfect
06-01-2022, 08:51 AM
PillowDribbler

I have one as well 199p,i see Federation Mountain Clubs are relaunching there same as SH1 campaign which is the way it should be.
08-01-2022, 06:48 PM
video hunter

Stocky how are you getting on with your paper road access issues? Persevering with it or given up on it and put it into the to hard basket?
One would think/hope where practical these paper road issues could be resolved hopefully mainly at the point of sale of the affected property so that perhaps there could be a win win situation for every bodies sake? But human nature is what it is?

For the farmers who read this...Many years ago i met a farmer, land worker around inland Northern Hawkes Bay who said to me with a big smile on his face "I been here for twenty years and i've never seen a deer yet" I told one of the local farmers about it and he told me if his father found out about it he wouldn't be very happy. I have always wondered / expected if that farm worker would end up being a politician?

Not to hijack this thread but any one had issues / experiences with private roads? Reasons....I have looked at a sign posted private rural road and it doesn't make any sense a road that long road is private? It must require on going bridge / wash out maintenance with very few people living there to being economically viable....a unnecessary cost to those involved? Would council rates be any cheaper if the road was non private? Still, one could suppose they get less deer poachers up that private road being private than a public road :)

Good luck to anybody who is in the market to buy a property with private / paper road issues and other on going land problems as mentioned in this thread?
08-01-2022, 11:43 PM
Fireflite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taupohunter

I agree that poachers are scum and ruin a lot for everyone. I'm not sure if 4WD access is a legal requirement on paper roads? But, the "legal" paper road is there. Anyone purchasing a farm should have this pointed out by their lawyer.

It doesn't need to be pointed out by a lawyer.
If somebody is to purchase land that has a paper road then it works like this, essentially the purchaser is purchasing not 1 but 2 parcels of land!
The purchaser is buying lot "A"
The Crown or Local Council (public) own lot "B"
The purchaser is buying lot "C"

The purchaser doe's not own lot "B" that segregate's lot "A & C" but may be able to farm it if given permission which they usually are as the LG/C then does not have to maintain.
Under law, they can not refuse public access to/through that land!

Anyone that says otherwise either doesn't understand the law of the land or are lying for their own benefit!

My thoughts only, but have been down this road several times.
10-01-2022, 06:34 PM
Carbine

Same as SH1' campaign re-launched for unformed legal roads

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-heral...k9Uzku5Vqbs-RA
23-01-2022, 06:34 PM
stretch

@Stocky (and anyone else), if you're on Facebook, join "Recreational Access and Paper Road Information for Hunters" (https://www.facebook.com/groups/815522488518099/)

Lots of good discussions, links and examples. I'm the admin.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it appears the burden of proof in any trespass case will be on the farmer.

The difficulty (for both parties) in determining where the boundary of any ULR is is there are inaccuracies in any survey, and these inaccuracies compound with every step of the survey process. Take a look here.
https://www.linz.govt.nz/data/geodet...eight-accuracy

So, while doing your best to follow the centerline of the ULR as shown on WAMS, you may off the ULR, but it would be up to the farmer to prove it, and that would require the boundary to be accurately surveyed, instead of just relying on a (possibly 150 year old) digitised map.

I'm not a WAMS rep or anything, but if anyone wants to talk about specific cases, I'm happy to assist, as I have access to a few useful mapping tools. Haven't been for a hunt in over a year, and essentially stuck in Auckland, so not interested in your spot.

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