first time using center fire

Hi team,

Got my 1st centre rife rifle (Ruger American 0.308) few weeks ago but just tried it out today
a bit nervous at the start, I learn things as I go and mostly from YouTube and reading forums.
I checked, double checked and triple checked everything, to make sure the rifle was ok and safe to fire.

1st shoot was fired and it was way out of the target sheet,
the scope needs some adjustment but oh well... that's for another day,
as the noise was a bit louder than my liking.

Bullet was Fiocchi 0.308W subsonic 200 gr and it was as loud as CCI 0.22 1640 PFS 32GR.

Attachment 216171

Both rifles have ghost silencers with 7 baffles.

Attachment 216172

is there a factory bullet (0.308W subsonic) that is not as noisy but powerful enough to take down a rogue bull at 150 yards (if necessary)?

or I better off get a 300blackout setup with subsonic

Thank you for the info and advice

A rogue Bull at 150 yrds needs headshot with EVERYTHINg a full power 308 can throw at it

Subsonic ammo will only detract from your lifespan if said bull thinks your at fault for annoying it

Please use full power ammunition for shooting any animals

I would suggest some ear plugs or muffs, practice and finding someone more experienced to help you get it sighted in correctly
I wouldn't personally be using a subsonic round to take down a "charging rogue bull" as you say. I would be using as above or a bigger gun!!
If its your first center-fire then practice is your friend.

as above, a 300black out is not a bigger / more powerful cartridge than a 308.

The bang comes from the escaping gases and a 308 subsonic will have way more gas and a larger hole than a 22 supersonic.
That round is a full metal jacket. They are not designed to kill anything other than paper and it only has 400 flb's of energy.
Minium recommended energy for a deer is 1000flb's at the deer. A bull is much bigger and way more dangerous than a deer.

For cattle using a 308 you need full power and a premium controlled expansion round. Ie 160-180gr at 26-2700 fps,
Zq

I have put down cows and bulls with a 308, 7.62 and 12 ga. I have shot a lot of goats with 308 subsonics. A bull is a tough animal with thick skin, bones and muscles. Use a full power 308, preferably with a heavy 180 grain bullet, aim for the head or neck and make sure you have a good shooting position. BUT before even attempting this, make sure you get plenty of shooting practice and can hit a small enough target to kill the bull at the range you intend to shoot.

Suggest sporting 'noise cancelling' earmuffs, Peltor Sporttac are one and there are others on the market. Or earplugs work, but while suppressors reduce the impact of the sound waves on your eardrums and minimise the potential for hearing damage it's still on the painful end of the noise spectrum.

As others have suggested subsonic ammo is for specialist and usually short range work, best to stick with the full power ammo for animals as it's much flatter shooting and hard hitting.

Thank you for the advice,
I work in a very noisy workshop so have plenty of ear protection choices
I practise shooting at the farm and prefer to shoot with minimal noise, out of respect for my neighbours.

My local homekill guy used 0.22 mag to put down my neighbour's cow (headshot)
hence I just assume that sub 0.308 will do the job but apparently not.
Thank you for the info, time to visit that friendly fellow at GC I guess.

Hi Snap,
The home kill is a different situation. Generally dealing with an animal that is quiet and still plus its done by an experience operator at close range were he can put the bullet into the brain through a thin part of the skull.
Shooting a bull at 150mtr is a whole different game.
Z

You really have to be carefull with the background of the thing you are shooting at when using those 308 subsonic ammo, they generally do not expend, and depending what you are shooting at they can go through a lot and still make some magnificent richochets after that. I have done a few double goats with one bullet when using subsonic ammo.

I'm as green as a pea can get,
I'm in no near danger with any animal, just wanted to make sure I have the option.
Been practicing with rim fire and getting better each time
however when the situation is not calm or panicky that's a whole different story

How close are the neighbour's

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

I'm as green as a pea can get,
I'm in no near danger with any animal, just wanted to make sure I have the option.
Been practicing with rim fire and getting better each time
however when the situation is not calm or panicky that's a whole different story

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The practice with a .22 will translate to some degree but its generally better to practice with a centerfire if your aiming to shoot centerfire. What's your aim for this firearm? Im wondering if it could make sense for you to pick up a 243 as a stepping stone in the centerfire learning curve, minimal recoil, minimal noise suppressed and enough punch for majority of animals NZ holds

My neighbors and i, can't see each others (hilly)
my shooting pad is about 250m away (just a guess) from the property boundary
The closest neighbour's house is about 500m away (just a guess) from my shooting pad.

They all are ok, hence I don't want to stir the water.

I tried to google the legality of shooting in rural land but I need to spend more time on it

a good few years ago on a sth auckland lifestyle block a cape buffalo got free of its enclosure, the owner wanted to put it down so with some mates they went out in the ute to tip this thing over ( im not sure what calibre they were using (and its not really relevant to thiss thread) one member of the party went to take a shot from the tray of the ute , tragically didnt compensate for the fact that while looking thru the scope the barrel was pointed thru the cab . a couple of very basic rules were broken at this point and he shot his mate in the head.
so any way getting to the relevant point a local plod was called to dispatch the beast (being a hunter and keen firearm tinkerer he was the man for the job , right?) well he turned up with his 6.5 swede ....... now im not gonna poopoo the 6.5 they are great ...... but for cape buffalo? after a few shots (at least 3 but cant remember exactly how many) he finally brought it down . the poor thing must have been way stressed and freaking out and the whole situation could have gone south very quickly . so the takeaway from this is you have an opportunity here to listen to the advice from guys that have hunted all manner of beast from possum all the way up to beasts that weigh over a ton , and make sure you are using the right tool for the job. .

You can do alot off practice dry firing at the taget so you learn to hold the rifle still while you squeeze the trigger still make sure rifle pointing in a safe direction tho

12g is very effective when close on cattle.
Just have to stand firm.

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by WaikatoBushman

The practice with a .22 will translate to some degree but its generally better to practice with a centerfire if your aiming to shoot centerfire. What's your aim for this firearm? Im wondering if it could make sense for you to pick up a 243 as a stepping stone in the centerfire learning curve, minimal recoil, minimal noise suppressed and enough punch for majority of animals NZ holds

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yeah agree with the bushman -the last thing you need is to start flinching from noise - if its just the noise that's bothering you then when target shooting I use a set of good sonic ear plugs and combine that with a set of grade 5 ear muffs - dont hear much with that combo- get as comfortable as possible - neighbours well look after them - a courtesy call before target session always and reasure them you have safe range with decent backstop

Thank you folks for all the good advice
I'm not in danger or planning to shoot any livestock, anytime soon
Just doing my homework before pulling the trigger,
look like this idea going back to the drawing board.

Maybe will pick up .223 or .243 as someone suggested and practice with it
If only, I could jam another rifle in my gun safe.

To be honest, the .243 is not (in my opinion anyway) going to help in any way here. Similar muzzle bark, slightly less recoil but completely different trajectory and it's another firearm to feed. Plenty of soldiers learnt to shoot going from nothing to .308, so it can be done. It's just a case of researching the techniques and if you can get to a range with someone that's experienced with hunting situational shooting that can coach you a little.

The point about the Peltor noise cancelling is that different to industrial PPE, they only shut off noise past a set threshold so for industrial purposes actually don't comply with H&S requirements. What the point of the exercise is, is to get away from the noise effects of the muzzle gas jetting (it's similar to a high pressure compressed air release and a similar level of potential damage). The suppressor tames the worst of the gas jet expansion noise by reducing the velocity of the gasses leaving the muzzle, but doesn't remove the supersonic crack from the projectile or the gas pressure wave which is the equivalent of the compressed air release.

In your position, you're doing the right things by thinking through and asking the questions but one of the issues with the internet is wading through the multitude of replies which are all correct in their way to find what suits your situation and objectives. My vote such as it is, is to stick with the .308 and make it work for you. Money saved makes for more ammo for practice, and once you've got confidence with that you won't look back. Noise from the gunshot is one major factor, suppressors help and cap it with whatever hearing protection you have on hand that suits and is convenient. If recoil force is still an issue, you can upgrade the recoil pad to a limbsaver or a pachmeyer version or add some weight into the stock which slows down the rearward boot...

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

Thank you for the advice,

Thank you for the info, time to visit that friendly fellow at GC I guess.

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right,so now we see the problem....yo uare asking a SALEPERSON working on possibly a commission....what is best for you..... fox in henhouse really.
they will be MORE THAN HAPPY to upgrade whatever you have,at a price.....
dont muck around with a rouge bull.get someone in to do the job who knows what they are doing,better still ask one of big bore guys to come and do it for you..that rigby etc that was bought for African safari will enjoy the exercise and be vasty better for the job...at very least bring that fella along to back you up after you cockup the job..he at least can drop bull before it destroys or kills something.

My advice is, You need to find an experienced shooter to come look at your set up and go over things with you.

Your subsonic loads- you will not get anything quieter and if they are noisy then something is wrong with your setup. All subsonic will produce a similar level of noise and energy is dependant on bullet weight, so changing cartridge case will not effect results.

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

is there a factory bullet (0.308W subsonic) that is not as noisy but powerful enough to take down a rogue bull at 150 yards (if necessary)?

or I better off get a 300blackout setup with subsonic

Thank you for the info and advice

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150 yards - plenty of time to retreat

Rogue Bull - shit, you can never have to much gun here, they are big, hard headed and when angry take a lot of stopping. Should be sent to the freezing works long before this stage, first sign of stroppiness and off they go.

Yeah sure - a .22LR was used on the farm to down a cattle beast in the yards - but two different scenarios.

An enraged bull coming at you, will certainly focus the mind and stuff your aim.

Hello Snap 4T, I recognise your username from the fishing forum. I think you may have got the message about 300BLK, subsonic ammo and bulls! Just for interest, since 300BLK rounds utilise the same projectiles as .308, all other things being equal, they are identical in performance at subsonic speeds. At supersonic speeds, .308 is far superior to 300BLK in terms of energy delivery.

MB you forgot the last line
at subsonic speeds they both SUCK BIG TIME if your aim is off by even half an inch.....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

MB you forgot the last line
at subsonic speeds they both SUCK BIG TIME if your aim is off by even half an inch.....

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There is that too!

my advice squire for what its worth would be to hook up with some of the experienced guys on here. you can practise etc under their watchful eyes and youll get a ton of bloody good advice ,if not a few outings to help you gain experience for the task.youll also probably find given a lot are of that rare species "good bastards",youll be joining a group of them,and providing you dont abuse hospitality or display a complete absence of commonsense,the world of hunting could well become your oyster too
.Thats how i learnt my goose shooting and 16yrs later still shoot with the same crowd .Ive just had a very enjoyable weekend away with a well known forum member who pm'd an invitation out of the goodness of his heart.Itook 3rifles i wanted to try and again had a marvellous session shooting and indeed exactly what can upset the accuracy .I also managed to tag my first possum in around 30yrs ,beleive it or not with a rifle donated to me by another forum member. try it -once youre hooke d youll never go back!!

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Originally Posted by MB

Hello Snap 4T, I recognise your username from the fishing forum. I think you may have got the message about 300BLK, subsonic ammo and bulls! Just for interest, since 300BLK rounds utilise the same projectiles as .308, all other things being equal, they are identical in performance at subsonic speeds. At supersonic speeds, .308 is far superior to 300BLK in terms of energy delivery.

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Hi &, yeah that's me.
Hows live in Northland.

Just picked up my 1st centre fire and asking some dumb questions here
nothing interesting... :)

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Originally Posted by kotuku

my advice squire for what its worth would be to hook up with some of the experienced guys on here. you can practise etc under their watchful eyes and youll get a ton of bloody good advice ,if not a few outings to help you gain experience for the task.youll also probably find given a lot are of that rare species "good bastards",youll be joining a group of them,and providing you dont abuse hospitality or display a complete absence of commonsense,the world of hunting could well become your oyster too
.Thats how i learnt my goose shooting and 16yrs later still shoot with the same crowd .Ive just had a very enjoyable weekend away with a well known forum member who pm'd an invitation out of the goodness of his heart.Itook 3rifles i wanted to try and again had a marvellous session shooting and indeed exactly what can upset the accuracy .I also managed to tag my first possum in around 30yrs ,beleive it or not with a rifle donated to me by another forum member. try it -once youre hooke d youll never go back!!

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That is very sound advice,
I was thinking to join AKL gun club last year but work commitment never allowed it.
Ended up learning from Youtube & internet and put it into practice when I have free time.
Unfortunately, I can't get away from a work commitment for now,
maybe later on when the time is right.

Yes, there are rare good species out there
I know MB above from my kayak day, good bugger that guy.

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Originally Posted by Doghead

150 yards - plenty of time to retreat

Rogue Bull - shit, you can never have to much gun here, they are big, hard headed and when angry take a lot of stopping. Should be sent to the freezing works long before this stage, first sign of stroppiness and off they go.

Yeah sure - a .22LR was used on the farm to down a cattle beast in the yards - but two different scenarios.

An enraged bull coming at you, will certainly focus the mind and stuff your aim.

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Yeah, from all the advice I got here, bull calf is not an option now,
will stick with a heifer or steer at the most.

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

Hi &, yeah that's me.
Hows live in Northland.

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Life goes on. Hunting and fishing when parenting, working and weather allow. I'm long retired from kayak fishing, jetski for 7 years; picked up first boat in May 2022 and loving it, although it's been a terrible summer for us, I'm guessing similar in Auckland.

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Originally Posted by Snap 4T

Just picked up my 1st centre fire and asking some dumb questions here
nothing interesting... :)

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I was in the same boat 5 years ago, we all were at some point, so ask away.

Ear plugs PLUS ear muffs.

Muffs rarely close perfectly when you wear eye protection, or if you have hair longer than a crew cut.

And press the stock firmly, hard into your shoulder, it reduces discomfort from the recoil.

Been going through something similar, up to now been only shooting my mild mannered 22-250 and .22LR. Stepping up to the .308 is a different ball game, for a start it kicks a lot more but I'll get it under control with a bit more practice. With ear muffs and suppressor it was not very loud at all.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Ear plugs PLUS ear muffs.

Muffs rarely close perfectly when you wear eye protection, or if you have hair longer than a crew cut.

And press the stock firmly, hard into your shoulder, it reduces discomfort from the recoil.

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Ive just had hearing aids fitted at 68yrs old
.On my audiologists advice i dont wear aids when shooting and will use both muffs and ear plugs in future .Once your hearing gone its gone and too valuable and too late to spend the rest of your days moaning what if.Im pretty pedantic on this - i hate daughter mowing lawns with no hearing protection ,similsrly clowns using chainsaw s etc .once youre hearings gone thats it.no go to mitre 10 pick up new lot of hearing .youre deaf till death!