Looks like Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage is going all out to stuff New Zealand hunting as fast as she can. Never have I felt such utter disgust for this lot in parliament at present.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...cid=spartandhp
Thanks Rushy, link was corrupted, try this one
Check the link Simon. I don't think it took me where you intended.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/natio...y-under-review
Anyone really surprised though?
When the GC are in conflict with DoC's 1080 and game animal management plans, who thought DoC/Govt would really play fairly?
That sucks looks as if the minister is all for getting rid of our game animals any way it can and because the GAC questions the use of methods like 1080 it has to go. Just when we get a council that has our interest at heart the government is thinking of canning it …. we know who to vote for next time, and it won't be them.
Arseholes !! But sadly predictable and no doubt the moron city/urban ignorant voting masses don’t give a shit or think it’s a good idea. After all we will be predator free won’t we. Totally arrogant bullshit
no ...not surprised .... any elected government and their underlings listening to lobby groups that have a different view of how things could be done to their own agenda is just pipe dreams .... now if poor little paddles wandered off into an auckland city council park for a night of hunting native birds and accidently gnawed on some discarded 1080 maybe ..... ...Quote:
Originally Posted by cambo
As usual - DOC bureaucrats protecting their jobs.
And the Greens 'tail' wagging the composite Gov't.
Where is NZ First (supposedly pro firearms and sportsmen/sports women)?
The Greens agenda is to return NZ bush to pre-European occupation.
The problem being that the Ecology of leaf browsers is gone (MOA for example), and deer/goats have filled that niche.
Tussock land isn't being damaged by imported animals (numbers are too small), but uncontrolled sheep farming in the late 1800's/early 1900's did.
The Fiordland environment isn't being destroyed by Wapiti, due to the excellent management practises of the FWF.
The endangered list of NZ's native species is increasing, because the emphasis is on poisoning the environment, and therefore 'controlling/removing target feral species' - NOT.
As usual, political agendas are more important than the will/knowledge of people who are waiting to be asked to help - hunters for example, and the impact out of date practises is having on the whole environment.
After all, the Press/TV isn't interested in presenting a balanced, investigative opinion - except as a page filler - because balanced reporting doesn't sell papers/ increase viewer percentages.
The feral species that need removing are located in central Wellington
Not surprising. The small article in the latests NZ Hunter is also an interesting read. Kill them all, no herds of interest and bomb the country with 1080. Arrogance at its best.
........ ummmm the greens are leaf browsers arent they?....................Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyR
shit just realised .... get rid of other browsers and they will have no competition for feed..... thus bringing on an apocolyptic breeding season of green party members...... forget the beech mast and the battle for the birds something much more terrifying is coming......
I always maintained the biggest danger to the enviroment is well meaning mis-informed greenies who think they know more than anyone else. (Why else would they support a poison that kills native birds and wildlife being spread by helicopter over the countryside.) The one thing I have noticed is that everywhere I have been that has seen the green rain has been silent. No birds, no insects nothing. Just silence. It kills every creature indiscriminately.
1080 appears kinder on the poisoners' consciences - like using Predator drones to kill at a great distance.
That is, until they wake one morning at 1 am and really think about it.
If the argument for pre European settlement is to hold any water, then Trout and non native Pines would also be on the hit list.
Their thinking is warped in the extreme
This is stressing me out, feel pretty helpless. What is there that we can actually do?
The frustrating thing is the amount of hunters we have in NZ with no bite/voice.
We (hunters) for the most part seem to be quite emotive and quite rough around the edges. To try and pull all of the hunters together as a united front always seems to end in internal rows. A lot of us don't/can't put our words into constructive sentences and resort to name calling and insults. This is one reason why we fail to be heard. Just my thoughts on it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsoup
Preditor Free . . . wonder when they start the search n destroy on urban (Felis domestica) . . . that'll free up half an isle in the supermarkets.
Perhaps they could start by just making it illegal to breed them.
Remind the nation again what caused the extinction of the stevens island wren:
( https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...d-wren-2014-12 )
Nothing against cats as indivuals or a species, just calling out the political nonsence of 'preditor free'!
Al hail the indigenous Bird reich, Tui! (Yeah right).
@Bugsplat i grew up in a dog family and have never been fond of cats. Built a house in town and it was neutral ground and lots of cats would use my crusher dust drive way as a little box and pissed on my house. I informed the council about my problem and that they're not my cats, that they must be "pest" stray cats i planned on catching and disposing of humanely. Unless their animal control officer wanted to take them. There are bylaws for dogs and dog control but nothing for cats.
They basically told me, There's no bylaws for cats, but i would be responsible to find locate the owner if i caught a cat. They only deal with dogs at our animal control. I thought to hang the trap from a post in front of my house with a sign *Is this you cat, contact me to collect it when im home*
so, when we're "pest" free does that entitle me to hunt kereru? They do look like a fat tasty bird.
A peaceful protest of fake 1080 in a helicopter dropped over suburbia and cities would cause a ruckus. I used to be a big believer in 1080 before getting into hunting, I believed what the media told me. Now I'm physically out there in the bush noticing the quietness of particular areas that have been 1080'd, compared to areas that are dealt with differently.
Hamilton city have a halo project they set up to bring tui, bellbirds, kereru and other bird life back to the city. People on the ground, bait stations, trapping, donating traps out to public and people restoring gullies. I live close proximity to a few of these bush blocks this project is focused on and town is full of tui,kereru during the days the flowers are out, moreporks at night. I hunt a couple of these blocks and although the bird life can easily give away your position or play tricks on you, they're nice to have around. Not very often you can be stalking along to hear a snoring kereru above you in a tree.
Well the great hunting opportunities we have had over the last 10yrs are going to take to a hit under Sage’s watch, between increased Waro including more access for them, more 1080 & the tree huggers aka Greens, etc
Has already happened Pengy - Look at the de-nuding of the original acclimisation societies (now combined into Fish and Game that has become almost toothless) and the lack of changes to protect species in leglislation over the last 30 years in the face of increased pressures (irrigation, drought/flood protection, dirty dairying etc and lack of environmental safeguards) as evidence of this. Twig and tweets original pursuit was to rid NZ water ways of invasive sport and coarse fish and let natives come back (yeah right) even if it means wholesale killing of every fish in the waterway by poison.... - Their members pretty much controlled DOC and probably still do as I remember it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
This is Greens/Forrest&Bird/ DoC - standard playbook just applied to the Game animals - First strip away the legal protection, the Power of the interest groups, outlaw and vilify it and eradicate in a scorched earth type cleanse...
Standard playbook - when's the next Election? :O_O:
Not sounding great for the likes of us is it?
This Sage creature should crawl back to where she first emerged. Hard to believe there is a twisted extremist legally f*****g up our outdoors eh.
Pisses me off that one nutcase has the influence to ruin it for us all, makes me sick
I wish there was only one of them, the problem would be easily solved. But I think you will find that there are many with the same agenda well infiltrated in the system with their snouts in the trough.Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsoup
Unfortunately yes the Sage is surrounded by political activists with hollow heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetawa
Agreed it is difficult to pull hunters together. What is the answer ? well that can be found by asking which group is successful in pulling it's members together. That group is fish and Game. They have statutory protection of game fish. For those who doubt what I am saying, please Google search the Conservation Act and read under 'fish and Game Councils' it might surprise you just how much authority they have and how little is granted to game animals! Now moving this to a conclusion we can ask they question ' Why do introduced fish have this protection and not game animals' ? put simply because fishers buy a licence and that is where our future must also be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
The "like" I stuck on your post was because I agree with your logic, not because I like the concept, we as hunters are probably never going to have an effective lobby group, but if hunters had a fee generating "hunting licence" then we would have value and thereby some measure of protection (maybe.....)Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
To all in general: find out who your local mp is, make it your mission to get in front of it and make sure it understands you will vote in whatever direction that keeps the stupid greenies from strangling us with their idiotic ideology, reminding it that you will do your dammdist to influence every member of your family, friends, work mates, and that are connected to a whole bunch of other people ( like on this forum for example ) that will do the same.
Roughly I worked out that I could get about 50 people to vote in one direction to obstruct the stupid green mob, imagine what a few thousand hunters could achieve with the right mindset.
The trouble with that is all our game animals were provided and acclimatized with the goal/Intention that hunting should not be only the domain of the wealthy anybody should be able to hunt, and also as a protection for some species that were in a threatened population in their home ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Returning the land to pre European settlement as @Pengy suggested is flawed as the first settlers the Moriori and second settlers the Moari had already hugely modified the land with fires and hunted/destroyed habitat of many species into extinction and pushed many others to the very brink....this was all well before the arrival of the evil white man and introduction of deer/pigs/thar/cham/goats/sheep/stoats/ferrit/possum/rabbit/hare and all those other things that provided a means to stop eating each other to survive.
Were our game animals introduced with the intention … that anyone should be able to hunt. No they weren't. That might be a nice 'feel good' thought however critically examining the evidence of history will show a different story. In fact licences were expensive and only the Gentry hunted in the prized areas. If the intention had been to allow the common man to hunt with the same opportunity then the licences would have been balloted and at a low cost. Tourist hunting by the English Gentry was very popular here and many of the top trophies shot were taken by Lords and Majors. In large part because of the Wars 1 & 2 Game animal populations got out of control and protection was lifted and licencing taken away from acclimatization societies. But now that the animals are under control there is no reason that they should not be protected and hunting licenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
We have free hunting for the common person now on public land but that hunting is under the perpetual threat of poisoning, WARO and the likes, so it is perhaps not as much 'our right' as we might think it is. The truth is we are tolerated and treated as a fringe group
On the one hand I hate the idea of paying for a licence but on the other I know that there is only one way to unite and give a voice to big game hunters.
A united voice or at least a coherent voice is vitally important and I don’t see that directly connected to a license fee. These are two different aspects. If a license fee would guarantee us (hunters & outdoors people) a real voice and leverage then I’d be for it. But for now we need to focus on the issue at hand - stopping the crazy green/labour/DOC political machinery from destroying our heritage on public land. I don’t do book face, but hopefully this is getting attention and traction there. Get hold of your local MP and ring their bell. If there was a decent journalist who could do a rational and in depth investigation it would help a lot. This issue needs visibilty
I disagree. Thats ok we can disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Most "real" hunters I know are older than me, I know in that group not one of them would pay a license fee and they would hunt without said license to make a point.
I think the firearms owning/hunting population is generally older but have no stats on hand to back that up, feel free to backhand me with stats to the contrary.
I personally would not be happy with paying a hunting license fee and would resist it by any means I could but I value my FAL perhaps more than my older hunting mates so if forced to then I would comply up untill the point I could not afford it then I would become a criminal.
Once we as hunters start paying to hunt there will be no going back. The price will only keep going up and the average kiwi want be able to afford it. It will become a rich mans sport for the kiwi rich and foreign hunters.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by bigbear
Not sure I get your pointQuote:
Originally Posted by 300CALMAN
It has already gone that way largely in the respect of private land access.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear
As a kid I could if asked nicely,mabe do a bit of farm work in return or drop of some meat if successful hunt pretty much any local farm.
Nowdays more often than not if it is not being run as a game park someone has brought the sole hunting rights.
Agree Pengy,Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
Taupo even when their were regional acclimatisation societies in other areas was still always run by DOC. always has been...
Ask locals about what DOC does for the species there... minimal... Invasive catfish in the delta area, plenty of research FA action.
Ask Didymo Dave about how much or little maintenance they do... Locals and volunteers, clubs yes, DOC not so much... OH, License checks to protect their revenue stream - yeah plenty of that.
Oh and the trout centre as a breeding ground also protects the revenue coming in through licensing by artificially adding new fingerlings to the environment. makes up fro the years where whole years of naturally produced young would be decimated by weather events. keeps the wheel turning... BTW licensing costs I've never seen go down..year to year..
I understand the concerns being voiced here. However, if Fish & Game were to take on management of game animals I don't see that this would create unaffordable costs for hunters. The cost of a trout or game bird licence is not exorbitant and if a similar cost was placed on game animals it would be a tiny price to pay in return for protected management and formal recognition of those game animals on public land. Without that formal recognition the future will only lead to high cost and exclusive private ownership of game animals; in fact a hell of a lot higher than a F&G licence. The alternative is what we are witnessing now from DoC and it bodes ill for the future of public land game animal hunting.
Yeah personally I don't hate the idea, as long as the revenue stream is transparent and actually out towards the conservation and management of public land, rha's and game animals. I think if visible results were achieved many would begrudgingly accept the fees place. The sceptic in me however can just see the money going into the pot and little good coming of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Also I think DOC is ttarred and feathered often on here quite unfairly. They have a limited budget. Yes their bemuerocratic wing has an agenda and makes some silly calls, but there are many passionate hard working people of the front lines that work to maintain and protect our public lands. It's not perfect but it is valuable
The heads need to be cut off the DoC Hydra; but: if f&G took on licenced game animal protection and management the funds would be protected just as they are under current F&G legislation and structure, including democratically elected councillors who manage staff and budget allocations.
Taupo, I think should be under F&G, Ive fished the Lake for many years, since I was 16 and having the bach at Kinloch for the past 17 yrs. I have seen the demise of Taupo over the passed 17yrs from 600mm to 350mm for legal trout. I have heard all the bullshit and excuses from DOC on the causes. My opinion is DOC know SFA about what is happening to the Lake and are doing even less about it. Being a natural fishery is a problem, but needs to stay that way. Id ban downriggers and jigging for a start, only harling, spinning and trolling. Something tells you, when charter boats guarantee a fish, its not fishing anymore. Lake level being controlled by 3rd parties doesn't help.
I rarely get the boat out to just go fishing anymore, but have bought myself a downrigger, so things may improve! I also jig and know about targeting fish, latest finders make it easy. Back to basics @ $90 per yr for a licence, I expect some return on investment!!