Gun storage law change and security arrangement question.

Hey all, I was reading a forum somewhere about gun safes and someone mentioned that the law regarding the thickness of the safe was about to change?
Can anyone confirm or deny this, if so shouldn't places like gun city stop selling the 2mm safes?

Also, when a vetting officer comes to inspect my security arrangements I will have my new safe fixed to the structure of the house on 2 sides with 8 10mm coach screws but the bottom of the safe will be sitting on a wooden platform because the closet its going in has a board across the bottom that stops the door opening all the way.

Also the safe has an internal lock box, I assume that this is for storing bolts or ammo but shouldn't I get a separate small safe for my ammo so that my rifles, ammo and bolts are all separate?

I live in a flat with several other people, none of whom have any criminal convictions, will this living arrangement have any impact on the likely hood of my security arrangements getting the ok?

Any clarification is much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Strider B

"fixed to the structure of the house on 2 sides with 8 10mm coach screws"

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Sounds like plenty to me

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Originally Posted by Strider B

Also the safe has an internal lock box, I assume that this is for storing bolts or ammo but shouldn't I get a separate small safe for my ammo so that my rifles, ammo and bolts are all separate?

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If you want, but you don't have to.

And there's no law saying you need to use a safe, is there? Otherwise simple gun racks would be out of the question...

Sounds like your set up will be fine anyway.

Current wording is to "prevent an opportunist thief" if I recall correctly. Personally, I don't believe this is enough.......

Yeah I reckon there's no reason why you should want to skimp on security.

(a)keeping on the holder’s premises—
(i)a lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction in which firearms may be stored; or
(ii)a lockable steel and concrete strongroom in which firearms may be stored; or
(iii)a display cabinet or rack in which firearms may be immobilised and locked so that none of them may be fired; and

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Originally Posted by JoshC

Yeah I reckon there's no reason why you should want to skimp on security.

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I agree too , not only the safety issue but the flip side , had a work colleague get 3 very nice (mint) rifles stolen , he was gutted but worse was he got reamed up the bum by his insurance company, as sporting goods depreciation is insane . Long story short he got enough money to buy one rifle and glass .

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

That's rather loose.

I know a guy with an arse that fits that description - tight at the discharge end, the rest of it was bulbous and used for storage. The plick still owes me several grand for work I did and the bastard falsified his diary, a ship's log and tried to get a couple of the guys I was working with to lie to the courts that I wasn't there... Good one - thanks for your custom!

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Wtf?! I would ruin the cunt in any way possible

What are the rules around ammo?
I was told by a guy working in a gun shop that ammo doesn't need to be locked anywhere, just out of the reach of children, not with the guns and not obviously on display.
Also said bolts are allowed to be stored in the gun, but he locks his magazines elsewhere, and gave the situation of a shot gun or semi auto that cannot remove the bolt.

Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following conditions:
(b)the holder, where he or she has both a firearm and ammunition for it in his or her possession, either—
(i)shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the ammunition is not stored in such a way that a person who obtains access to the firearm also obtains access to the ammunition; or
(ii)shall ensure that, where the ammunition is stored with the firearm, the firearm is not capable of being discharged:

There is no requirement to keep ammunition securely stored. It is good practice though.

Ammunition can be stored with the firearm, as long as the firearm is not capable of being fired (Trigger lock, removing bolt). It is not good practice though.

There is no requirement to disable any firearm except restricted weapons. It is good practice though.

Arms Regulations 1992-

19 Conditions relating to security precautions

(1) Every firearms licence shall be subject to the following conditions:

(a) the holder shall not put a firearm in such a place that a young child has ready access to it:

(b) the holder, where he or she has both a firearm and ammunition for it in his or her possession, either—

(i) shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the ammunition is not stored in such a way that a person who obtains access to the firearm also obtains access to the ammunition; or

(ii) shall ensure that, where the ammunition is stored with the firearm, the firearm is not capable of being discharged:

(c) the holder shall take reasonable steps to ensure that any firearm in the holder’s possession is secured against theft:

(d) the holder shall, where he or she has possession of a firearm that is—

(i) a flare pistol; or

(ii) a humane killer; or

(iii) a stock marking pistol,—

keep it in a locked container, except where it is under the holder’s immediate and personal supervision.

(2) On and after 1 July 1993 the reasonable steps required by subclause (1)(c) shall include—

(a) keeping on the holder’s premises—

(i) a lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle of stout construction in which firearms may be stored; or

(ii) a lockable steel and concrete strongroom in which firearms may be stored; or

(iii) a display cabinet or rack in which firearms may be immobilised and locked so that none of them may be fired; and

(b) keeping locked or immobilised and locked in the cabinet, container, receptacle, strongroom, display cabinet, or rack required by paragraph (a) every firearm which is on the holder’s premises and which is not under immediate and personal supervision of the holder or some other holder of a firearms licence; and

(c) ensuring that no firearm in the holder’s possession is left in a vehicle that is unattended.

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(i) shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the ammunition is not stored in such a way that a person who obtains access to the firearm also obtains access to the ammunition; or

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So basically can't be with the guns unless bolt is removed or have trigger locks.
So can stick it in a wardrobe somewhere, but in a perfect world would be locked away.

Cheers, I did have a read through the act and will have ammo, rifles with trigger locks and bolts in separate safes in different places so that side of things should be fine although it does seem to be open to interpretation somewhat. I was also looking for any official docs. that mentioned an amendment to the arms act in relation to safe thickness but came up empty handed.

I have spoken with a mate who said that living with other people none of whom have a FAL and he said it was not an issue, so fingers crossed, ill be gutted if I get denied because I live with other people.

On a side note, how long did it take for the vetting officer to do his thing and come to give the ok for security and interview your references?

Strider

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Originally Posted by Strider B

Cheers, I did have a read through the act and will have ammo, rifles with trigger locks and bolts in separate safes in different places so that side of things should be fine although it does seem to be open to interpretation somewhat. I was also looking for any official docs. that mentioned an amendment to the arms act in relation to safe thickness but came up empty handed.

I have spoken with a mate who said that living with other people none of whom have a FAL and he said it was not an issue, so fingers crossed, ill be gutted if I get denied because I live with other people.

On a side note, how long did it take for the vetting officer to do his thing and come to give the ok for security and interview your references?

Strider

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I don't know of any tabled Arms Amendment Bill. Richard Prosser from NZ First mentioned about his parties desire to increase the storage requirements. NZ Police may attempt to introduce a new policy, but like many of their previous policies it won't be supported by the law.

Living with others isn't an issue, as long as they don't have criminal convictions or mental health issues. Even then, it doesn't rule you out. Case by case.

Took 4 days for the vetting officer to come around and another 1 week for another to interview my reference.

Local arms officers often seem to have their own interpretations of what a 'receptacle of stout construction' is, maybe some of them want a certain thickness of steel even though there is no legal specification. Unless its an E-cat thing?

I had my interview and inspection on the same day and the AO turned up at work that morning to interview my referee.

Application to receiving my FAL took 7 weeks.

Just had a reinspection after a change of address and have one gun in a lockable rack and the other 3 in a safe and he was more than happy with that arrangement, ammo and bolts in the top compartment of the safe.

In hindsight if I had known what I know now I would have bought and E-cat safe first off as now I need to buy a new one!

If you find yourself arguing the toss with them over something and feel you may be in the right, do what I did and take them on head on.

I had an inspector come around after we moved to inspect the new place.

She insisted that the rule of law stated that firearms, bolts and ammo all need to be locked up in different locations with different keys.

This is obviously wrong , and I wrote a semi snotty email about it to the national AO, who backed me and apologised.




Tim

Awesome, well my security will be sound and none of the people I live with have any criminal convictions so I'm feeling a bit better about things now.
May seem like a silly question here but once you have been given the all clear for the licence do you get some sort of documentation saying that you have your licence while you wait for your physical card to arrive or do you have to sit on your hands until then?

Thanks heaps for the answers.

Is anyone going to the NZDA meeting today by chance? I was thinking of heading along to see what they are all about and im keen to join so I can get some decent range time.

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Originally Posted by Strider B

May seem like a silly question here but once you have been given the all clear for the licence do you get some sort of documentation saying that you have your licence while you wait for your physical card to arrive or do you have to sit on your hands until then?

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Generally you just wait. There have been delays with the company who is contracted to print them before and people have been their License number over the phone apparently.

Just be patient.

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Originally Posted by Koshogi

Generally you just wait. There have been delays with the company who is contracted to print them before and people have been their License number over the phone apparently.

Just be patient.

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I just waited for mine .... after 6 weeks of waiting I found out that the AO had been off crook for all of that time. I contracted Wellington Central and they got onto the case and provided an AO to process the huge backlog of licence applications that had backed up ...

The moral of the story being ... if its taking way too long, then by all means ask the appropriate question ...

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Originally Posted by Koshogi

Generally you just wait. There have been delays with the company who is contracted to print them before and people have been their License number over the phone apparently.

Just be patient.

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After I had done my test, interview and secure storage inspection, my referees checked etc I waited over 3 months. The AO had said to expect 2-4 weeks :ORLY:

hey mate

Im new as but had my interview in late November officially got my licence on the 2 of December but still haven't received the card ,I rang up last week and they just gave me the number as there is a rifle on trademe I want to buy .
I got my dads old e-cat safe so I passed the scrutiny test easy as mines not even bolted down and I live in a flat and they didnt even care about them .

if you want to go for a shoot some time give me a yell

Sam

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

That's rather loose.

I know a guy with an arse that fits that description - tight at the discharge end, the rest of it was bulbous and used for storage. The plick still owes me several grand for work I did and the bastard falsified his diary, a ship's log and tried to get a couple of the guys I was working with to lie to the courts that I wasn't there... Good one - thanks for your custom!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

That's rather loose.

I know a guy with an arse that fits that description - tight at the discharge end, the rest of it was bulbous and used for storage. The plick still owes me several grand for work I did and the bastard falsified his diary, a ship's log and tried to get a couple of the guys I was working with to lie to the courts that I wasn't there... Good one - thanks for your custom!

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Ohhhh do tell, don't want to be caught too!! PM is OK

Get an e-cat safe. That way when you eventually get your e-cat you won't have to buy a new safe. Also get a big one. I did the former but failed on the latter.