Hand held thermal now legal on public land

Here's the article from the herald. No real facts though. My understanding is there were 2 separate parties hunting ( most probably illegally at that time of the day although that's an assumption on my part) and one party picked up a heat blob in their thermal and shot it. Sadly it wasn't a deer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/waikato-n...AUAAZGF5ZZ2UE/

FFS

People who shoot at unidentified heat signatures are also probably members of the groups that shoot at sound, movement or unidentified targets in general. They’re out there, just look at the numbers that get shot while wearing blaze clothing, a subject that gets a regular airing.

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Originally Posted by No.3

Just the fact of clarifying their use on crown land won't change the fact that law breakers will use them for poaching etc though.

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True. Though looking at it from a landowners perspective, and having had every excuse thrown my way. Its another out when you confront them. Before this they couldn't claim it was legal either side of the boundary fence.

This was always a difficult one for Doc to enforce. When was the last time you've been stopped for a hunting permit check on Public Land? I was the other day for the first time. Didn't ask if I had a thermal (which I don't). Best be honing your bush hunting skills, and keeping your head low (in the hut or tent) at night.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

A danger is that thermals pick up indistinct heat signals, especially in scrub and bush. And the cheaper thermal spotters that will be mostly used (35mm/$2.5k types) have lower definition. Even in open country it can be difficult to clearly define what the heat source is. Shooting at these heat spots could be a disaster, and people will do it - you can bet on it. People will also be tempted to shoot at heat signals when shooting light is marginal - you can bet on that too.

It will be an absolute essential to check heat sources with good binos, or be absolutely certain through the thermal the shape is an animal. Using these on public land adds another level of risk to everyone. Ive previously seen poorly edited You Tube vids of these being used on DOC land by hoons. With drinking involved. It makes me uneasy.

The risk is less on private land because other people are less likely to be about - but there are no guarantees.

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I don't think this scenario is that likely with handheld thermals. When you spot a heat signature it is actually quite hard to figure out exactly where it is. Trees and surrounding features look quite different in the thermal so it can be hard to pinpoint where the object actually is through the binos or naked eye. The only info you really get is that there is something warm in a rather general area. This generally necessitates the use of binos to follow up where exactly and what this heat signature is. You cant really shoot at a heat signature because you wouldn't be confident as to where exactly it was without follow up with binos or at least the optical rifle scope (not advisable).

Now rifle mounted thermal scopes are a different story, but these are still not legal to use on DOC land for good reason. From what I have heard the recent accidents have involved the misuse of thermal scopes not handheld thermals. With these you really can blaze away at an indistinct white blob.

As someone said previously thermals are just a new way to make old mistakes. The type of people stupid enough to lob rounds in the general direction of a heat signature are the same ones who regularly shoot their mates after hearing some rustling in a bush etc etc. I agree with DOC on this one, the risks of handheld thermal use are minimal compared to all the other ways in which you can misidentify a target. Shooting at sound or movement while bush stalking is still far more dangerous and likely to result in an accident in my opinion.

I am happy to use thermals, a big part of hunting for me is actually bringing a decent amount of meat home to the family. With the cost of everything going up so much and having to convince the wife to babysit the kids alone so I can get out occasionally it really is painful coming home empty handed. They do help pick up a lot more animals specially in distant faces covered in matagouri and bracken which are particularly hard to glass effectively with binos. But I always follow up with my binos to identify my target before proceeding further.

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Originally Posted by Juicy

I don't think this scenario is that likely with handheld thermals. When you spot a heat signature it is actually quite hard to figure out exactly where it is. Trees and surrounding features look quite different in the thermal so it can be hard to pinpoint where the object actually is through the binos or naked eye. The only info you really get is that there is something warm in a rather general area. This generally necessitates the use of binos to follow up where exactly and what this heat signature is. You cant really shoot at a heat signature because you wouldn't be confident as to where exactly it was without follow up with binos or at least the optical rifle scope (not advisable).

Now rifle mounted thermal scopes are a different story, but these are still not legal to use on DOC land for good reason. From what I have heard the recent accidents have involved the misuse of thermal scopes not handheld thermals. With these you really can blaze away at an indistinct white blob.

As someone said previously thermals are just a new way to make old mistakes. The type of people stupid enough to lob rounds in the general direction of a heat signature are the same ones who regularly shoot their mates after hearing some rustling in a bush etc etc. I agree with DOC on this one, the risks of handheld thermal use are minimal compared to all the other ways in which you can misidentify a target. Shooting at sound or movement while bush stalking is still far more dangerous and likely to result in an accident in my opinion.

I am happy to use thermals, a big part of hunting for me is actually bringing a decent amount of meat home to the family. With the cost of everything going up so much and having to convince the wife to babysit the kids alone so I can get out occasionally it really is painful coming home empty handed. They do help pick up a lot more animals specially in distant faces covered in matagouri and bracken which are particularly hard to glass effectively with binos. But I always follow up with my binos to identify my target before proceeding further.

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That makes sense.

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Originally Posted by RUMPY

Here's the article from the herald. No real facts though. My understanding is there were 2 separate parties hunting ( most probably illegally at that time of the day although that's an assumption on my part) and one party picked up a heat blob in their thermal and shot it. Sadly it wasn't a deer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/waikato-n...AUAAZGF5ZZ2UE/

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That is quite sad, something that will forever hold us back. Sort of like WHY do people shoot road signs

Now they should revisit the rimfire rules... There's one spot I would love to pop off bunnies and hares (absolutely everywhere) but haven't been able to get a small game permit there.

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Originally Posted by BushChook

Now they should revisit the rimfire rules... There's one spot I would love to pop off bunnies and hares (absolutely everywhere) but haven't been able to get a small game permit there.

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Mt Cook [emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by kukuwai

Mt Cook [emoji41]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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They are that tame you only need a air rifle.

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Originally Posted by Trout

They are that tame you only need a air rifle.

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Semi auto is fun and effective on bunnies

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Originally Posted by BushChook

Now they should revisit the rimfire rules... There's one spot I would love to pop off bunnies and hares (absolutely everywhere) but haven't been able to get a small game permit there.

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.223 with cheap ammo? Or just get really handy at using a DOC approved bow :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Juicy

.223 with cheap ammo? Or just get really handy at using a DOC approved bow :thumbsup:

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Still aiming that .223 at small game, is that allowed?
Smallest calibre I have in centre fire is .270 anyway and ammo for that isn't cheap.

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Originally Posted by BushChook

Still aiming that .223 at small game, is that allowed?
Smallest calibre I have in centre fire is .270 anyway and ammo for that isn't cheap.

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Pretty sure there is nothing wrong with shooting small game as long as you are shooting in daylight hours with an approved calibre (such as .223) in an area thats away from tracks and huts, where you aren’t going to scare other outdoor users etc

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Originally Posted by Juicy

Pretty sure there is nothing wrong with shooting small game as long as you are shooting in daylight hours with an approved calibre (such as .223) in an area thats away from tracks and huts, where you aren’t going to scare other outdoor users etc

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Re: Hunting rules and DOC, to my mind they only care about human safety and protecting native birds which is why they have their rules. If you want to shoot rabbits with a .270, I'm sure they couldn't care less. The Small Game Hunting Permit is about using small calibre rifles and shotguns.

Also small game permit allows hunting in areas otherwise restricted.,so 22lr ok but big scarey 270 not so much lol

Just tried to show a comparison, phone pic and thermal pic taken from same place. Cows are in background of thermal shot

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Originally Posted by BushChook

Attachment 251940

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Interesting you need a special permit for a muzzleloader, you still need a license unlike a bow can anyone explain?

Thermals can be handy in other ways than directly hunting.

People in camo can be hard to see, and thermals can help check for people e.g. in bush on the other side of a river valley.

Mine has been useful for finding where we are missing insulation in our ceiling. Also really helpful on the weekend when I used it in DOC land to retrieve a goat which rolled down the hill into some brush but still gave off a good heat signature.