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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-ba...DHCHE4DNEKEVQ/
Interesting read, good on her for organising this and stopping potentially waste of a meat resource. From what I hear the HB deer problem is not going away but this is a step in the right direction.
just a pity that keen hunters cant be directed there DOC and the Regional Council could do a lot more to get hunters to the hot spots
I agree Barry, numbers get reduced and hunters get a piece of the action too. Sadly not unfortunately
Really. Go and ask any farmer in the Waiwhare district for hunting access. You would be dreaming.
It’s not that simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by Davo
Who ensures the “hunters” are……….
responsible enough to be on private property
Culling animals properly and ethically
Protecting farm stock from harm
Protecting other farm/ neighbour assets
Protecting intellectual property
Insured against accidents and damages
Carrying out specific instructions
Persistent enough to actually cull every animal required
Culling within the required timeframe
Operating in a covert way
Maintaining confidentiality about property and operation locations
100% reliable and consistent in ALL weather conditions and hours of the clock
You quickly realise it’s hard work, that requires payment for services, services that require professionalism
Anyone doing this for a job good on you, well done, if your not - there’s a steep learning curve of which no farmer needs to suffer the collateral consequences
Its a double edged sword. @7mmsaum's questions are correct. Yet also animal populations get very quickly out of control after they reach a certain point. I had to devise a system where I allowed trusted friends access without me, and also I charged for meat hunts for people I didnt know, which slowly let me filter some of those guys to also let them hunt by themselves. The biggest one was safety. You had to know that guys would choose safe shots and also that they would stay in the area you wanted them in.
The other issue I had was I was trying to improve the trophy potential of the herd by leaving the good bucks and shooting the poor ones. Peoples assessment of what is poor, what is just young, seems to deteriorate when you are not around. I also, despite explaining what I was doing, had quite a few guys just offer to pay more to shoot the big guys. When really what I wanted shot was doe's.
there would be nothing stopping a group of hunters getting together and offering their services - but it would be helpful if they knew where to door knock first - the issues involved can all be addressed - they are certainly not insurmountable
These properties already have plenty of recreational hunters and the workers also hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davo
Thing is once a population reaches a certain amount shooting the odd deer simply isn't going to get on top of them.
Back in the '80s how many deer were in the southern Ruahines, bugger all. It has been hunted consistently and now look at the numbers. Most recreation hunters simply can not control a deer population.
Yes I agree TLB but can have a lot of fun trying some keen types out there even if its recreational
Problem is what happens for example two of the properties in particular that I have done deer management on the deer have been so hunted, although still in high numbers, and have turned nearly completely nocturnal. Also run at the sound of a bike. This makes it difficult because getting good tallies is reliant on covering a lot of country. If the deer are very bike shy you have to walk. That's fine but it really does effect how much area you can cover in a night. The deer also head back into the bush as soon as shooting starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Other properties that have had little hunting pressure life is a lot easier and the results significantly better.
“Most recreation hunters simply can not control a deer population”
More the problem is that most recreational hunters can’t get their head around the idea of what “culling” actually involves, which can vary from eradicating every animal to just select animals as per land owner or organisational requirements. Too many hunters go out and shoot one or two animals to meet their requirements, oftentimes educating remaining animals of human danger, telling themselves and others that they’ve helped said landowner. As mentioned earlier it requires a dedicated and often prolonged effort to achieve required outcome. For example, shoot say ten animals and leave another twenty on a young forest blk and you probably aren’t going to be invited back.
Public liability insurance and other issues are everyday hassles we have to deal with on a daily basis.
It is good though to utilise all meat if at all possible.
Just my take on things, others will hold different views I’m sure.
I couldn't agree more the ruahines are a classic example of this, a mate came out of the ruahines yesterday with his kids after a loop walk, saw mobs of 10- 20 deer the whole trip.
Yet when someone posts on here they went up there and did some culling they get accused of wasting meat...taking two many animals etc..
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I haven't seen much criticism lately. Most people I think, realise we have to shoot more right now. Use it or lose it folks.
be great if one could get some co-ordinates of the mobs and post up for the new hunters going in there - any help to new hunters would go down wellQuote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
Virtually every main slip system 45 mins or more from the road end from mid November onwards (no grass growing at the moment so a bit less activity) will have a deer out on it at some stage throughout the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
If you went for an overnight hunt and sat and watched slips morning and evening and didn't see a deer it would be very bad luck. Look at some of the YouTube channels of guys that hunt the Ruahines, most of them seldom come home empty handed.
Also remembering the age old saying 10% of hunters shoot 90% of the deer is still reiterated by a lot of chopper pilots and I think that uni survey a few years back had a similar outcome. Plenty of hunters just haven't clocked up enough hours and simply struggle to get deer even if the numbers are high.
I've done that on almost every ruahine thread for years BarryQuote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
While they are my stomping ground I have no hesitation in helping others out.
I'd rather we managed it ourselves than doc stepped in.
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10 percent of the hunters getting 90 percent of the deer holds true.
Farmers know that and are choosy about who they let on for a reason. A free for all would be a shambles.
Fill your boots on public land. But even if coords of hot spots were posted the majority of hunters would still come back disappointed.
I wonder if the new thermal rule will up the success rate?
From the experience a number of associates had.
The hunters get cunning (lazier) once they're over the novelty of seeing deer they would have missed.
Preferring to wait until the recovery is easy.
It takes lots of experience & practice to make a dent once the easy animals are gone.
It was a job I did.
Used to get a few strange looks when you called at the farmhouse on the way home. Hours after dark some nights.
Wish we had todays technology then.
A decent torch was a novelty.
Shows my age :(
Went on a recent management hunt where there had been considerable pressure on the animals. They were very trained up, and new the score. Spent a considerable time in the area I had playing tag with a pair of does, eventually getting ghosted by them. I moved, they moved and as soon as I was stationary they were shadows. Kept the sun behind them making scoping slower than ideal as looking into the sun, and also meant I had a lovely spotlight on me highlighting every movement. Eventually they got sick of teaching me a lesson and backtracked into thin air it seemed, eventually saw them several hundred meters away gapping it into a big chunk of bush. Ranges 80-120m up til then, I had the scope on them several times just to watch them move into shadow and gone behind something. It really was an education in how well they learn to play the game with a lot of continuous pressure on, they really were dictating the rules to me. Spotting tech or a second set of eyes would really have helped me track them into the shadows and be ready for them to step out with the rifle on target, but without it I was on the wrong side of the equation. Rest of the animals were like that more or less as well, not ideal.
As far as culling, taking females is the best approach to get control of numbers as one female = 4 deer in three years. Most hunters aren't really looking for those though. Also, dropping everything you can out of the group as quickly as possible so the animals that are remaining and have learnt aren't huge in numbers. A farm I knew a while back left a buggered fence at one point on the boundary with doc land with another 5-wire further in for the farm animals to stay behind. This gave them a known access point which with the right conditions (wind direction, temp, weather and moon/sun phase) they could sit observing and drop everything trying to step through. Some nights they were getting 25 or 30 or more deer. This before the semi ban though, not sure what they are doing now. Having rec hunters coming on and paying for a couple of animals every few days is maybe a good supplementary money thing but no good for controlling animal numbers.
Brads - what part of the Ruahines / what loop was that? I am heading up for a few days mid week next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
Open invite too if anyone wants to join.
Hey mate mill road, Howletts hut , over the Sawtooth down past Tarn Biv.Quote:
Originally Posted by bear308
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Thanks mate, will mark it on the map. Was intending to hunt Rangiwahia side but will reconsider, good to get to know the area regardless cheersQuote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
PM if you want some info are hunting over on the Rangi side.Quote:
Originally Posted by bear308