Thread: Help Stop 1080, please sign

Iv'e done my homework very thoroughly and documented it with government over more than a decade. I just wish most people would be as diligent. If they were, I do believe the falsities presently expounded to justify the degree of 1080 poison use would be well known and the result would be a major expansion of trapping and shooting (including thermal scopes) and a matching elimination of 1080 use. People need to use their time to search the truth rather than depend on short comments on casual social entertainment boards when the subject is so lethally serious to our social and natural environment. The interference of those with various personal biases in social discussions destroy the integrity and validity of purported outcomes or solutions unfortunately.

I’d like to see a gene drive done on certain pests. The Greens refuse to allow these though.

It’s not personal bias or interference.
It’s people looking at facts and past experience and coming up with an opposite conclusion, then sharing their view point.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Just what I expected. When challenged for some evidence to back up your claims you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't offer any.

I'm not a 1080 fan either, but as others have said it seems to be most cost effective option for NZ at the present.

Fuck it, I'll bit.
Poison and poison only will never ever succeed. EVER! It is a completely failed system.
Systems that are not a failure, regular visits.
It really is that simple and I should know as it's my job. I can take you to blocks that have been poisoned and six months later you would not know.
The most important thing to know is breeding cycles; rats 20 days, rabbits 28 days, possums yearly etc. This is a major factor in all control work just like monitoring.
Did you know doc and I think it was landcare research did a study on rats. A pre poison monitor then 12 months later a post poison monitor. The rat numbers were around 150% of the pre monitor numbers.
Did you know doc often do 1080 drops with NO MONITORING BEFOREHAND.
Did you know that without knowing the numbers of target animals you have no fucking idea on how much poison to use. They could be over OR under poisoning, by doing that they could in fact be dramatically increasing pest numbers. Animals that have had a sublethel dose will not go near 1080 ever again.
Do you understand how much secondary poisoning happens? Any bird that eats meat is fucked. We'll go through a poisoned block and see dead seagulls, hawks, NATIVE FALCONS etc. It wipes out quail as well.....

Edit to add: also note doc has doubled the amount of poison they are now putting out per hectare. Also note they are lying about the costs as I proved via the OIA. Dumbarses.

I feel sorry for some of those on the ground working for that idiot outfit.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of 1080, I'd rather have deer and pigs in the forests than some birds, but maybe that's just me. I don't expect anyone to agree!

Originally Posted by MB

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of 1080, I'd rather have deer and pigs in the forests than some birds, but maybe that's just me. I don't expect anyone to agree!

It's not quite that straight forward which is why deer are classed as feral pests as are goats and pigs etc. (act passed in 1969). We (NZ) have spent generations and untold amounts of cash and man hours trying to keep animals in some sort of check. As per the guys on the hill before me, I cull as much as gather meat and see this as something of an obligation.

The end results of deer in the bush is no bush - period. Not to mention massive soil erosion and degradation of water courses and aquatic life. Deer, given the opportunity reduce forests to open grass lands in fairly short order. A good example of this is the
opening up and changing of open grass land to forested land ratio in Yellowstone park where Elk felt free to do their thing in relative peace as wolves had been eliminated from the park. The re introduction of wolves changed the whole pattern of re vegetation as the Elk were driven back to more densely forested areas and the new saplings had a chance to make it to a height that ensured the growing tips could not be browsed.

Birds are just one part of the bio diversity picture. Much of which we have little understanding of. We do know some of the complex role that birds play in the health and reforestation / maintenance of bush in margins and slip areas. As I understand it, bio diversity is the name of the preservation game as this is where much of our medical research starts from and we have no idea what else is yet to be discovered through the research into the flora and insect life that makes up our bush. It may not be as intense and as packed as the south east Asian rain forest but it is significant and like nothing else anywhere in the world - unique and with a unique potential.

Originally Posted by Woody

Iv'e done my homework very thoroughly and documented it with government over more than a decade. I just wish most people would be as diligent. If they were, I do believe the falsities presently expounded to justify the degree of 1080 poison use would be well known and the result would be a major expansion of trapping and shooting (including thermal scopes) and a matching elimination of 1080 use. People need to use their time to search the truth rather than depend on short comments on casual social entertainment boards when the subject is so lethally serious to our social and natural environment. The interference of those with various personal biases in social discussions destroy the integrity and validity of purported outcomes or solutions unfortunately.

No, there wouldnt be a major expansion of trapping or shooting, because man power is too expensive, and thats the bottom line.

The question and the only thing on the govts mind is: What is going to kill the most pests for X amount of dollars. And that is not and never will be trapping or shooting.

The only question asked here is if 1080 was discontinued, what is a cost effective alternative. And no one here has produced a solution.

Immediately when that question is asked, the anti-1080 crowd seem to take offence and think it is some personal attack on them and attack, abuse and try and put down others for asking the question.

No, it is a completely reasonable question to ask and one that needs to be answered before any change is made. In my opinion, it makes no difference if youve done your homework for 10 years or 10 minutes, if you cant come up with a cost effective method of pest control, 1080 in the eyes of the govt will go nowhere and all your homework is a waste of time.

No one here as said it isnt bad, of course it is bad, no poison is good, it isnt used just for the hell of it, it is used because it is needed to be used.

Its the same as the pesticide DDT, and it wasnt stopped worldwide until there was an alternative, and that is all anyone is asking for - an alternative to 1080 that is cost effective.

Originally Posted by bing

It's not quite that straight forward which is why deer are classed as feral pests as are goats and pigs etc. (act passed in 1969). We (NZ) have spent generations and untold amounts of cash and man hours trying to keep animals in some sort of check. As per the guys on the hill before me, I cull as much as gather meat and see this as something of an obligation.

The end results of deer in the bush is no bush - period. Not to mention massive soil erosion and degradation of water courses and aquatic life. Deer, given the opportunity reduce forests to open grass lands in fairly short order. A good example of this is the
opening up and changing of open grass land to forested land ratio in Yellowstone park where Elk felt free to do their thing in relative peace as wolves had been eliminated from the park. The re introduction of wolves changed the whole pattern of re vegetation as the Elk were driven back to more densely forested areas and the new saplings had a chance to make it to a height that ensured the growing tips could not be browsed.

Birds are just one part of the bio diversity picture. Much of which we have little understanding of. We do know some of the complex role that birds play in the health and reforestation / maintenance of bush in margins and slip areas. As I understand it, bio diversity is the name of the preservation game as this is where much of our medical research starts from and we have no idea what else is yet to be discovered through the research into the flora and insect life that makes up our bush. It may not be as intense and as packed as the south east Asian rain forest but it is significant and like nothing else anywhere in the world - unique and with a unique potential.

I’m 99% sure deer are not classed as “pests”.

Anything that is not native to here is classed as a pest in the Greens and their followers eyes, which has now leaked further into the bureaucratic structure that governs this country.

ok hows this for a cheap option devlope a permit system possibly a part of the small game permit allowing spotlighting possums

Originally Posted by tanqueray

I’m 99% sure deer are not classed as “pests”.

Wild Animal Control Act.

Se S2 definition of wild animal, and S4 control of wild animals.

Wild Animal Control Act 1977 No 111 (as at 18 October 2017), Public Act Contents – New Zealand Legislation

Originally Posted by tanqueray

I’m 99% sure deer are not classed as “pests”.

Unless the Noxious Animals act of 1956 has been repealed deer remain classed as noxious as far as I'm aware.

Originally Posted by tetawa

Anything that is not native to here is classed as a pest in the Greens and their followers eyes, which has now leaked further into the bureaucratic structure that governs this country.

Not true take plovers for example those noisy bastards came from ozy & are now classified as native , were do you draw the line ..if a bug hitched a ride on the back of a plover does that mean that too is native ? if a native human brought some deer over for food & sport why should it be classed as a pest ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Originally Posted by bing

Unless the Noxious Animals act of 1956 has been repealed deer remain classed as noxious as far as I'm aware.

@bing

Wild Animal Control Act:

Schedule
Enactments repealed
s 44
Noxious Animals Act 1956 (1956 No 6) (1957 Reprint, Vol 11, p 317)
Noxious Animals Amendment Act 1962 (1962 No 42)
Noxious Animals Amendment Act 1967 (1967 No 143)

Originally Posted by northdude

ok hows this for a cheap option devlope a permit system possibly a part of the small game permit allowing spotlighting possums

Im all for hunters and shooters who for sport or food shoot blocks to help control pests. And if it was organised by a local body properly it could work well for rabbits/hares, wallabys, goats, maybe deer and alpine pests and also possums.

My fear is that some shooter will shoot a farmers cow or put a hole in their shed or worse, and that will be the end of that. Unfortunately there are some shooters/hunters who feel they are self entitled to shoot holes in things, steal trail cameras and other items that dont belong to them, cant be arsed closing gates after themselves etc etc who have ruined it for everyone.