Thread: Help Stop 1080, please sign

@Mr Browning.
For over a decade the AHB and DoC led the media, parliament, ERMA/ EPA and PCE and Regional Councis that 1080 operations cost $8-10per hectare. The anti 1080 lobby continually contradicted this but MP's (except Richard Prosser) were in denial. Finally, the AHB was obliged to submit to an independent audit. Amongst other things, the true Average Cost per ha of 1080 operations was $55-57 per hectare. This audit also led to an official admission that the tb testing and farmer compliance with stock movement recording and controls were sadly inadequate. This led to the closing of AHB as such and its recreation as OSPRI. In tandem with this the NAIT system was introduced but is not fully successful even after seven more years. Nor are 1080 operational boundaries secure as farmers who have had stock poisoned can attest.
There is screeds of info out there if you look , and view the other pro poison propaganda with a BIG question mark.
Any possum trapper paid $57 per ha would jump at the opportunity. (And that was 2010 costs; worth more in 2019)

Originally Posted by Woody

@Mr Browning.
For over a decade the AHB and DoC led the media, parliament, ERMA/ EPA and PCE and Regional Councis that 1080 operations cost $8-10per hectare. The anti 1080 lobby continually contradicted this but MP's (except Richard Prosser) were in denial. Finally, the AHB was obliged to submit to an independent audit. Amongst other things, the true Average Cost per ha of 1080 operations was $55-57 per hectare. This audit also led to an official admission that the tb testing and farmer compliance with stock movement recording and controls were sadly inadequate. This led to the closing of AHB as such and its recreation as OSPRI. In tandem with this the NAIT system was introduced but is not fully successful even after seven more years. Nor are 1080 operational boundaries secure as farmers who have had stock poisoned can attest.
There is screeds of info out there if you look , and view the other pro poison propaganda with a BIG question mark.
Any possum trapper paid $57 per ha would jump at the opportunity. (And that was 2010 costs; worth more in 2019)

Youre forgetting the factor of time.
Yes, $57 per ha might sound good, but how many ha can a man cover effectively in a day and how many ha can a hopper or fixed wing aircraft cover in a day. All of a sudden man power doesnt look so efficient does it.

So the original problem remains. Come up with a cost efficient (and time efficient) alternative to 1080 for pest control and Im sure the country will be right behind you.

Signing a petition to stop 1080 without any alternative solution is never going to get any response from the govt.

Or would you prefer we stop using 1080 and maybe introduce wolves and foxes or some other animals to control the pests until they become pests themselves. Probably not a good idea either, but good for shooters, sadly be then we wont be allowed firearms to hunt them.

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Youre forgetting the factor of time.
Yes, $57 per ha might sound good, but how many ha can a man cover effectively in a day and how many ha can a hopper or fixed wing aircraft cover in a day. All of a sudden man power doesnt look so efficient does it.

So the original problem remains. Come up with a cost efficient (and time efficient) alternative to 1080 for pest control and Im sure the country will be right behind you.

Signing a petition to stop 1080 without any alternative solution is never going to get any response from the govt.

Or would you prefer we stop using 1080 and maybe introduce wolves and foxes or some other animals to control the pests until they become pests themselves. Probably not a good idea either, but good for shooters, sadly be then we wont be allowed firearms to hunt them.

More manpower needed, so more wage earners, so less unemployed getting up to no good in the idle time the devil fills. I don't see the problem in profits not being highly concentrated with fewer operators who have helicopters, poison manufacturing plants, etc.

NZ unfortunately has a large unemployed workforce. Some not able to upskill to highly technical jobs but then again they are also not strong enough to spend all their working lives wrecking their bodies in an abattoir.

Small is Beautiful is worth revisiting. It should be right up the Greens' alley, but they are against firearms at a very visceral level hard so the colour of their glasses does not allow them to see clearly.

Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Youre forgetting the factor of time.
Yes, $57 per ha might sound good, but how many ha can a man cover effectively in a day and how many ha can a hopper or fixed wing aircraft cover in a day. All of a sudden man power doesnt look so efficient does it.

So the original problem remains. Come up with a cost efficient (and time efficient) alternative to 1080 for pest control and Im sure the country will be right behind you.

Signing a petition to stop 1080 without any alternative solution is never going to get any response from the govt.

Or would you prefer we stop using 1080 and maybe introduce wolves and foxes or some other animals to control the pests until they become pests themselves. Probably not a good idea either, but good for shooters, sadly be then we wont be allowed firearms to hunt them.

You do the numbers properly, even a very below par person could easily cover 2000 hectares in a year, that 110,000 at 55 a hectare. And because they are targeting they will get a much better result than 1080. Steady steady will always win the race.

Originally Posted by Cordite

More manpower needed, so more wage earners, so less unemployed getting up to no good in the idle time the devil fills. I don't see the problem in profits not being highly concentrated with fewer operators who have helicopters, poison manufacturing plants, etc.

NZ unfortunately has a large unemployed workforce. Some not able to upskill to highly technical jobs but then again they are also not strong enough to spend all their working lives wrecking their bodies in an abattoir.

Small is Beautiful is worth revisiting. It should be right up the Greens' alley, but they are against firearms at a very visceral level hard so the colour of their glasses does not allow them to see clearly.

Unfortunately New Zealands millennials dont want to do it because it means hard work (Hats off to those who do it, Ive done some possuming in Central Otago in the Cromwell Gorge when I was a fit kid and it is easy country compared to most places) . And there is no incentive to do that when you can make money by doing nothing on the dole. Half of the reason we are having to import so many people to do the work NZer's dont feel like doing.
Yeah, the Greens. The ones who want to be green but want to fill the country up with people who cause more pollution and land/wildlife/river destruction - makes no sense at all.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

I'm NOT for it. I've seen the mess hunters make of rabbits.

Ive seen the mess some hunters make of buildings, old cars, road signs and much more, that doesnt impress me much either. I also remember rabbit boards laying oats in Central Otago and the sight and smell of hundreds of dead rabbits, that made a mess.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

You do the numbers properly, even a very below par person could easily cover 2000 hectares in a year, that 110,000 at 55 a hectare. And because they are targeting they will get a much better result than 1080. Steady steady will always win the race.

Sure, and an aircraft could cover that ground in maybe a few days or a week or something - that person isnt very time effective, 1 week versus 52 weeks.

Guys, please appreciate Im not having a go at anyone, Im not shooting any ideas down in flames, Im just pointing out there are points that need to be discussed and overcome to make a case to take to parliament to get 1080 stopped.

And if any case to stop 1080 goes to parliament is needs to be more water tight than a ducks bum.

My opinion only.

Personally, Im not pro 1080 and infact maybe a little more on the anti side because we had a family cat die of 1080 poisoning - well that wasnt the cause of death actually, it was my Dad bumping it on the head that killed it when there was no other option. But then again I released a cat (no idea whos cat it was) from a gin trap and bought it home and we had to take its leg off with a hammer and cold chisel. It healed over and stayed with us and we had a 3 legged cat for many years. Cats lives in rabbit country can be hard. But I do see a need for pest control.

Anyway, I want to thank you for the level headed discussion and debate, although currently living in the city I dont have pest problems (unless you call them neighbours), I enjoy the discussion. See if it can be kept going and you never know someone may stumble onto a solution.

Cheers

Don't know per hectare rate but per hour I am paid $35 using traps and feratox bait bags plus all fur is mine, 7 kgs of fur this week from traps alone this week