Thread: Herd management and Playing our part

Genetics makes the biggest difference to antlers. Stags are no better fed on farms today than what they were twenty years ago and yet SCI scores have gone from 500 inches to 900 now. There are very few really good wild trophy heads and these should be left alone and not shot. Shooting them out lowers the genetic potential of the herd because those genetics are not replaced by better feeding of the remaining deer, they are gone. Crap heads breed crap heads and no amount of feed will make that up. Antler has a heritability factor of 40% which is very high and means that only three crosses of good blood are needed to change a herd.
Take a look at the first head in the following link :https://www.pointssouth.co.nz/blogs/...s-up-with-waro
This is the best Rakia blood head I have ever seen and it is a travesty that the animal was removed from the herd. Perfect lower tynes framed by massive treys and clean straight beams into the tops. This is a one in five thousand stags. If we see a head like this I think we should leave it. Photograph it and put a couple of shots in the dirt beside him and make him more careful.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Genetics makes the biggest difference to antlers. Stags are no better fed on farms today than what they were twenty years ago and yet SCI scores have gone from 500 inches to 900 now. There are very few really good wild trophy heads and these should be left alone and not shot. Shooting them out lowers the genetic potential of the herd because those genetics are not replaced by better feeding of the remaining deer, they are gone. Crap heads breed crap heads and no amount of feed will make that up. Antler has a heritability factor of 40% which is very high and means that only three crosses of good blood are needed to change a herd.
Take a look at the first head in the following link :https://www.pointssouth.co.nz/blogs/...s-up-with-waro
This is the best Rakia blood head I have ever seen and it is a travesty that the animal was removed from the herd. Perfect lower tynes framed by massive treys and clean straight beams into the tops. This is a one in five thousand stags. If we see a head like this I think we should leave it. Photograph it and put a couple of shots in the dirt beside him and make him more careful.

to some extent I agree...and to some,not so much....its borderline criminal for that to be shot via chopper for venison market and the head ground up for horn candy. if any foot hunter saw that stag,it would be shot and carried out.trophy of a lifetime.... now hunting stags post roar gives then chance to root and pass on genes,shooting them in velvet and stripping antlers does not...to me it is just about as senseless as stag hanging on strop under chopper or rotting in creek from poison.
but we all want to hunt roaring stags,for the thril of the chase ...at some point in our hunting it becomes the be all and end all,some stick with it,others dont. IM rather ho hum about it now.Ive shot some good stags but wont pass up another if find one. I will carry what meat I can. I wont kill myself doing so,thats silly,but if I brought out no meat,my Mrs would kick me out to sleep on street.
in some ways shooting hinds is even more playing gamble as cant see how good of genetics they carry... but yip they taste better.
when private blocks next door are locked up,there will always be deer migrating/moving back n forwards in and out of blocks,the riverbed areas are holding quite a few too,escapees and there multigenerational off spring.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

to some extent I agree...and to some,not so much....its borderline criminal for that to be shot via chopper for venison market and the head ground up for horn candy. if any foot hunter saw that stag,it would be shot and carried out.trophy of a lifetime.... now hunting stags post roar gives then chance to root and pass on genes,shooting them in velvet and stripping antlers does not...to me it is just about as senseless as stag hanging on strop under chopper or rotting in creek from poison.
but we all want to hunt roaring stags,for the thril of the chase ...at some point in our hunting it becomes the be all and end all,some stick with it,others dont. IM rather ho hum about it now.Ive shot some good stags but wont pass up another if find one. I will carry what meat I can. I wont kill myself doing so,thats silly,but if I brought out no meat,my Mrs would kick me out to sleep on street.
in some ways shooting hinds is even more playing gamble as cant see how good of genetics they carry... but yip they taste better.
when private blocks next door are locked up,there will always be deer migrating/moving back n forwards in and out of blocks,the riverbed areas are holding quite a few too,escapees and there multigenerational off spring.

Re the shooting of hinds with good genetics, a great hind has little impact on shifting the genetics of a herd compared to a stag just because she is limited by the number of offspring she produces per year. If we shot all the poor stags and left only the very top ones so that they covered 40 -50 hinds each we would see a dramatic improvement in antler genetics. Instead we shoot the good ones and leave the crap arse ones to breed. If you wanted to breed olympic sprinters would you choose Usane Bolt or Danny Devito as the sire ?

The managed wild herds in Europe that produce spectacular heads dont shoot the best stags until they are going down hill and are too old to hold hinds - 12 yrs +. They shoot all the crap ones out

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Re the shooting of hinds with good genetics, a great hind has little impact on shifting the genetics of a herd compared to a stag just because she is limited by the number of offspring she produces per year. If we shot all the poor stags and left only the very top ones so that they covered 40 -50 hinds each we would see a dramatic improvement in antler genetics. Instead we shoot the good ones and leave the crap arse ones to breed. If you wanted to breed olympic sprinters would you choose Usane Bolt or Danny Devito as the sire ?

The managed wild herds in Europe that produce spectacular heads dont shoot the best stags until they are going down hill and are too old to hold hinds - 12 yrs +. They shoot all the crap ones out

if you wanted to breed top athelete would you by pass Valery Adams and only use Stephen????
two top level competitors in two VERY different sports,arguably have same genetics

but I agree we shoot ourselves in the foot...pun intended.
that top hind SHOULD poke out a top stag fawn at some point..... hopefully he lives long enough to poke a few hinds and pass on genes.
either way,we need to be seen to do something... I do wonder what goes through minds of chopper shooter when they whack over something as special as those you showed.... no matter which way you look at that it is short sighted dumb move.