hunter down :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by square1

...but it should serve as a reminder to treat firearms with the respect they deserve and identify the target.

---

Spot on IMO.

I see far to many people on forums after incidents like this slagging off whichever stereotype of hunter they think is responsible - maybe because blaming someone else is easier than accepting that any of us can make mistakes and need to do whatever we can to avoid them. Treat it as a reminder to be careful, and if/when it becomes clear what happened then learn from it! Learning from other people's mistakes beats the hell out of making the same ones yourself.

If anyone on here thinks they're so good that it could never happen to them... please stay home instead.

Im starting to think what other times of the year do we have hunters shooting each other? and coming to the conclusion to really pick my areas around the roar ie not if there will be deer there but if and when there will be other hunters.

I play a ton of paintball every week and the roar is seeming more each year to take on the aspect of paintball but with bullets.


Only two hunters down sure.. but I gotta wonder how many close calls go on. You here enough on the forums about people looking through their scopes etc for ages trying to figure out if that object is in fact a deer only to see after a few mins that's its a person.Bloody Good on them for having the right attitude to take the time and patience to really identify their target.. but how many out there during the roar would really go to those lengths to identify what they are shooting ?

I've personally known half a dozen people who would just go Bang as fast as they possibly could if they thought it was a deer.Last year I asked one how he got on and was told something along the lines of he hadn't scored anything but got a few sound shots off.....:wtfsmilie:

You only have to note the numbers of illegal spotlighters and the odd bush longdrop with bullet holes about body height to know there's retards with the wrong attitude out there in force.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peril 787b

Sounds like you may know more Steve. From the news reports I've read, the guy was shot, is now dead and no-one is owning up to the shooting. Seems like it he's done a runner to me

---

He is a very respected hunter and he has not done a runner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toby

Just shows it can happen to the "top" of the hunting comnuity. It's easy to say people look nothing like deer but if a couple of people that are known and respected hunters can shoot someone by mistake it can happen to anyone.

---

Wisdom beyond your years Toby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steveh054

He is a very respected hunter and he has not done a runner.

---

"was"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toby

Just shows it can happen to the "top" of the hunting comnuity. It's easy to say people look nothing like deer but if a couple of people that are known and respected hunters can shoot someone by mistake it can happen to anyone.

---

Very true Toby but we all should agree that it just shouldn't happen

I just got off the phone from a mate who who heard the shot and spoke to the guilty party after the shooting. If what he told me is correct
and Im sure he wouldnt embellish the truth then it does beggar belief:(

I guess we all need to look at ourselves before we start judging anyone else. There are some poor examples of Fire Arms Safety out there....

It is only my 3rd roar and this time we choppered in, we left early in the roar, by the time we returned a week later the carpark at the heli pad was full. While most people seemed keen and eager to be chopped in. One hunting party was just plan scary.......

They came up to us and asked us how we got on... As he had a beer in his hand a beer and stunk of piss ... They were so smashed if it was a commerial aircraft that they would have been banned.

And these are the very people that are in the bush hunting with high powered weapons......... F-ing Scarey!!!!!

What a terrible title for a thread.

Been thinking a lot about this. We as hunters or firearm users are getting something wrong from day 1 as this is 100% avoidable. It doesn't matter if this guy has 45 years of experience under his belt and is part of the NZDA, what it shows is hes been doing it wrong for 45 years and all it took was the right ingredients for it to happen! I wonder how many deer hes dropped over that time span and not clearly identified the target. This time unfortunately it was a human in his sights.

The whole thing makes me sick just thinking about it for all parties involved. The victim in this instance had high vis on, and pretty much sums up the insignificance of it. I'll still wear it but it gives me no confidence or security that im any safer in the bush.

What I have heard from a friend down there was 2 hunters were wearing blaze and saw another hunter 30-40 metres away.Gave a whistle to let him know they were there in the clearing and he just snap fired at them. Missed the bloke in front but nailing the other guy. Apparently an "experienced respected hunter" and very high up in NZDA ???


Which if true doesn't really say much for a nzda and their leadership attitude after two high profile members have now shot other hunters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneipete

What I have heard from a friend down there was 2 hunters were wearing blaze and saw another hunter 30-40 metres away.Gave a whistle to let him know they were there in the clearing and he just snap fired at them. Missed the bloke in front but nailing the other guy. Apparently an "experienced respected hunter" and very high up in NZDA ???


Which if true doesn't really say much for a nzda and their leadership attitude after two high profile members have now shot other hunters.

---

Wait till wat really happened comes out. There's rumors every where.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

What a terrible title for a thread.

---

Sorry?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk

This really does worry me. I feel so, so sorry for the dead hunter and his family. But i dont feel sorry for the guy that shot him. All accidents are preventable. Now i am fairly new to hunting and have only shot a couple of deer so am no expert. But last week was in the Ruahines, i had already spooked a few deer when i spotted some movement ahead. I got with in 40m or so. I was fairly certain it was a deer but could not quite see it fully in the bush. Did i pull the trigger at some thing i could not FULLY identify? NO FUCKING WAY! Would i have loved to go home with some meat or some antlers to show my boys FUCK YES. But i could not shoot at the something behind the bush no matter what. And it really really worries me that people will shoot at something without identifying their target. Dont know what else to say but RIP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneipete

What I have heard from a friend down there was 2 hunters were wearing blaze and saw another hunter 30-40 metres away.Gave a whistle to let him know they were there in the clearing and he just snap fired at them. Missed the bloke in front but nailing the other guy. Apparently an "experienced respected hunter" and very high up in NZDA ???


Which if true doesn't really say much for a nzda and their leadership attitude after two high profile members have now shot other hunters.

---

Experience or age is not a fact in deciding how foolish or careless a man is. An idiot is still an idiot even at the age of 50 or 60. Be careful always, wear high viz clothing and hope none of these bastards are not hunting on the day you are out there.

Police investigation or even a life imprisonment to this aarse hole is not going to change what had happened. It is a big loss to the family of the person who lost his valuable life. My heart goes out to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneipete

What I have heard from a friend down there was 2 hunters were wearing blaze and saw another hunter 30-40 metres away.Gave a whistle to let him know they were there in the clearing and he just snap fired at them. Missed the bloke in front but nailing the other guy. Apparently an "experienced respected hunter" and very high up in NZDA ???


Which if true doesn't really say much for a nzda and their leadership attitude after two high profile members have now shot other hunters.

---

Im a member of the NZDA so what the fuck are you implying @oneipete

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusky

The victim in this instance had high vis on, and pretty much sums up the insignificance of it. I'll still wear it but it gives me no confidence or security that im any safer in the bush.

---

After a personal experience last roar, i believe in some situations and conditions wearing hi-viz (blaze orange) actually puts you at a greater risk. I no longer wear mine, instead wear camo and/or green. I know this has been thrashed out a few times before, but i feel its important for people to think about it - You may not be as 'safe' as you think you are when you pull on your blaze orange top or hat.

From my experience where i roared in another hunter (two actually) and saw colour and movement thru tight bush, the small amount of colour i could see looked right, but i couldnt see enough to 100% identify as a deer, saw bush move, was expecting the stag to emerge any second, then two hunters pop out wearing full blaze orange, I alerted them that i was there, and we all shat ourselves. It was a really big wake up call for me i tell you, I honestly believed that it was a stag when i saw the colour and movement thru the thick stuff.

I can certainly see how this happens, very scary shit!

RIP young hunter, my thoughts are with your wife and 2 kids (I have a wife and 2 pre-school kids myself, and cannot imagine the impact on them if i was not to come home one day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neckshot

Im a member of the NZDA so what the fuck are you implying @oneipete

---

Don't think he is implying anything mate.
Other than it doesn't matter who you are or what position in you hold, if your an incompetent drongo. this sort of thing can happen.
Correct me if I am wrong but this bloke is the second person from NZDA that had a position of status and has shot and killed another hunter because he did not follow the simple rules his association holds sacred.
It does the association and it's interests no favours in the public eye.
Media scum will thrive on the hypocrisy.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rusky

Been thinking a lot about this. We as hunters or firearm users are getting something wrong from day 1 as this is 100% avoidable. It doesn't matter if this guy has 45 years of experience under his belt and is part of the NZDA, what it shows is hes been doing it wrong for 45 years and all it took was the right ingredients for it to happen! I wonder how many deer hes dropped over that time span and not clearly identified the target. This time unfortunately it was a human in his sights.

The whole thing makes me sick just thinking about it for all parties involved. The victim in this instance had high vis on, and pretty much sums up the insignificance of it. I'll still wear it but it gives me no confidence or security that im any safer in the bush.

---

This is it. Often we focus on the actions immediately associated with the event when the hunter ould have been heading down the pathway of causing injury for a long time. Not saying this is the case with this guy but more that it is healthy for us to focus on seemingly minor errors in firearm handling/hunting practice to.avoid them being integrated into a series of errors/poor philosophy which compound as bad practice that can lead to serious harm.
Sweating the small stuff and being even more aware of negative possibility is very justified in our sport.

Thoughts are with the family and those effected and hope that some change happens as a result of this to reduce chances of it in the future and bring some sense of assurance to the family

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R93

Don't think he is implying anything mate.
Other than it doesn't matter who you are or what position in you hold, if your an incompetent drongo. this sort of thing can happen.
Correct me if I am wrong but this bloke is the second person from NZDA that had a position of status and has shot and killed another hunter because he did not follow the simple rules his association holds sacred.
It does the association and it's interests no favours in the public eye.
Media scum will thrive on the hypocrisy.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

---

It looks to me there is a Dig there,This is Human error what club or association is irellevant and those rules are held sacred by every rifle owner who has a fal isn't it? tell me something new.Have a serch of the history and facts on Hunters shot and who shot them and the story might be different.

Should add to the above. I know of some people who pride themselves on being able to spot and shoot obscured deer in heavy bush, at times only seeing an eye etc. This is an example of one of those pathways clearly heading fpr disaster. Statistically it could take a lot of deer for an injury or close call to happen but one is too many.

It is the perception one has of a NZDA member mate nothing else. Your right it doesn't matter what club you belong to at all. But in this case it will be a big deal to the media.
Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Media wont care, the royals are in town and they dont have time for real news


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have experienced buck graver first hand on a hare drive . Was a club organised drive 60 -70 guns . The senior club rep have this fire and brimstone speech about safety that went on and on etc and the new guys must obey the rules etc . The rules are for those don't no is a line of guns ( back stop. ) and a line of guns approach backstop . You can not shoot forward only behind . Simple . You think . Well the muppet who did the speach forgot the rules , and when the line me included got to about 50 paces , he swung his gun at a hare directly at us .?his eyes where like saucers and he was blind to see a wall of people yelling and screaming don't shoot don't shoot . The hare ducked and dived and he never shot . Very scary moment .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R93

It is the perception one has of a NZDA member mate nothing else. Your right it doesn't matter what club you belong to at all. But in this case it will be a big deal to the media.
Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

---

With out even trying to you are Tahring the NZDA and all its members with the same brush Dave. I get your point on the media and its right.
But I respectfully disagree with the rest as it was Human error not NZDA error.

Never said it was NZDA error.
I am talking about perception nothing else.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

In my opinion,New Zealand has become vastly over populated very quickly. This obviously leads to all sorts of mishaps occurring, vehicular, firearm and otherwise . The roads of yester year are unable to accommodate the rate of traffic flow and the few remaining deer that survive the culling, 1080, tree clearing etc. are desperately hunted with unfortunate and predictable results sometimes.
The bad news is that non of the mayhem we experience will subside, but it's almost certain to esculate in proportion to the increase of human beings on this mortal coil.

I'm not sure there's magic pill that would stop this from ever happening. In my mind this sort of thing is similar to a traffic incident from a couple of years ago when a teenager ran a red light at high speed in a stolen car and killed a guy. Completely avoidable, all he had to do was stop for the red light. But he didn't. People with attitudes like this walk among us and as sad as that may be, they probably always will.

Wearing blaze may or may not help, that's a matter of opinion.
More stringent requirements surrounding licensing may not help in cases like this, it's not as if the shooter lacked experience (though I think the current process is almost completely lacking). The type of firearms that are available to buy is most definitely not the problem, but I am sure you lot know that already.
Harsher penalties would be nice, but they just don't stop some people. And I'm not saying these people are career criminals, but they are aware that actions have consequences.
Maybe a different permit system (such as I believe is used on the DoC blocks in Warkworth?), where one party goes in at a time would help. Though that wouldn't stop those with no regard for rules.

I don't think I've ever seen anything on the telly about a hunter not identifying his target properly and killing someone, I mean something like an ad that the Transport Authority runs for people speeding or something. Maybe something like that would help.

Habits tend to stick with people: like someone previously wondered, how many deer has this guy taken on an assumption? Maybe zero, maybe heaps. Either way, he shot at sound or movement coming from someone, not a deer, and in the process has altered several lives forever.

The hunting fraternity in NZ is big, but I've only been on this forum a few months and it appears it is still a bloody small world, with only a few degrees of separation it would seem. How many of us discuss safe habits while we're in the hills, or even at the range? If we held each other accountable somehow, then headlines like this might pop up less often. Pull people up on the things they shouldn't be doing with a firearm, whether you know them or not; make damn sure that what you and your friend are about to fire at is in fact an animal, and I mean damn sure--gender, species, current activity etc before pulling the trigger. When you see someone starting out, advise them on safety, pass on tips. The current system means you can never have handled a firearm and be deemed an acceptable firearm owner! Start them on the right track from day one, hold them to that track and maybe the bush will be a safer place for us all.

Well said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dynastar27

yup you are right there Rushy but this is the time of year the once a year hunters come out
and dont abide buy the 7 basic rules becasue they obviously have the " it wont happen to me " attitude

---

Couldn't be fucked reading 5 pages but this fucks me off.

I don't believe this for a minute. Anyone can fuck it up at any time. ANYONE. Doesn't matter if you hunt every day or once a year, drink lattes or piss water waikatos. I personally don't know anyone who truly believes this could never happen to them, most of them 'once a year hunters', myself included.

7 basic rules. 7 BASIC RULES. Both BASIC and both RULES. It's those that choose not to follow them that make mistakes.

That's my angry morning rant any way.

Anyone who thinks they may shoot someone in the bush at some time, should stay home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spook

Anyone who thinks they may shoot someone in the bush at some time, should stay home.

---

Id be more worried about the type that says " that will never happen to me " .

Anyone who thinks that they are a not a vulnerable human being, who can not make an unexplainable mistake, should bury their rifles in concrete and go and see a counsellor.

If you can’t accept that anyone could shoot anyone by mistake, you simply lack the the self awareness to be allowed firearms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

Anyone who thinks that they are a not a vulnerable human being, who can not make an unexplainable mistake, should bury their rifles in concrete and go and see a counsellor.

If you can’t accept that anyone could shoot anyone by mistake, you simply lack the the self awareness to be allowed firearms.

---

Thats what I was trying to say. Better articulation of words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Id be more worried about the type that says " that will never happen to me " .

---

That would depend on whether it was said with bravado/stupidity or with conviction of one's attitude/ self discipline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

Anyone who thinks that they are a not a vulnerable human being, who can not make an unexplainable mistake, should bury their rifles in concrete and go and see a counsellor.

If you can’t accept that anyone could shoot anyone by mistake, you simply lack the the self awareness to be allowed firearms.

---

This is how the judges see it as well...that's why Dumber only got 9 months and $7000 reparation for blatant murder at 16 metres

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spook

That would depend on whether it was said with bravado/stupidity or with conviction of one's attitude/ self discipline.

---

I dont think it matters how its thought or said mate. If you are thinking that way there is a problem straight away. Im sure the guy with 45 years experience had plenty
of conviction and self discipline also - yet a poor guy wearing blaze gets shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nathan F

I dont think it matters how its thought or said mate. If you are thinking that way there is a problem straight away. Im sure the guy with 45 years experience had plenty
of conviction and self discipline also - yet a poor guy wearing blaze gets shot.

---

What ever he had, as sure as hell it wasn't self discipline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spook

What ever he had, as sure as hell it wasn't self discipline.

---

Well lets just hope your never in his position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Well lets just hope your never in his position.

---

I think you may be misunderstanding the words or concept of 'self discipline'...because if this guy had any, then this position/situation would have had a happier ending.