Hunting/shooting/government

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

just be careful she aint a black widow.........

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yes that's her

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Originally Posted by MarkN

You are quite right, in that other causes of death may rise, given the effect these Covid-19 prevention measures have had on our health system.

Option A - For arguments sake, let us postulate that deaths from all other causes, that occur, if the health system is diminished by the Covid-19 prevention measures, rise by say 10%.

Option B - Then think about what happens if there are no Covid-19 prevention measures, in addition to the normal deaths in NZ, the deaths from Covid-19 produced a graph that looks like this ::



Attachment 138009


I think I'd prefer Option A.

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Having just invented it Im not surprised you prefer it . :thumbsup:
Your 10% postulation is as relevant as your "no Covid-19 prevention measures at all" If you are going to put forward an argument at least make it slightly realistic.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

You think its important because it fits with your opinion but the glaringly obvious is that its only looking at one side of the equation. I listened to an oncologist today saying he was deeply concerned as cancer testing is down by 30%. With early diagnosis critical to many types how many cancer victims will loose their lives due to the lock down? Our local hospital emptied an entire ward and it sits idle when normally its busy, elective surgeries are stacking up even worse than before, suicide watch has reported a massive increase in those needing support that will no doubt end in loss of of life.
Along with the economic fall out that has major implications going forward there are also serious consequences directly affecting the health of the population.

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This is my current deliema and to say Im concerned is putting it mildly. They are trying to treat me other ways at the moment, I have missed out because of this lockdown. Positive side............... still looking

Sorry to hear that mate, hope things improve for you.

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Having just invented it Im not surprised you prefer it . :thumbsup:
Your 10% postulation is as relevant as your "no Covid-19 prevention measures at all" If you are going to put forward an argument at least make it slightly realistic.

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Yes, I'm sure you're not being obtuse, I'm referencing your originally posted "I listened to an oncologist today saying he was deeply concerned as cancer testing is down by 30%"

I would wonder what a 30% fall in testing, would do to a measurable death rate.

For the sake of argument, i postulated perhaps a worst case death rate increase could be 10%.

It's only a thought exercise, but I'm sure that if we had uncontrolled exposure to the Covid-19 virus, we'd be getting much higher occurrence of deaths than if we hobbled our Health system by 30% in the absence of this virus.

:)

Yes I’m sure a completely unchecked virus would have a significantly higher death toll but it’s not an option that any western govt has taken or anyone here has argued. It’s practically outside the spectrum of possible options. It’s a straw man
You have tried to make a point by taking a percentage you’ve plucked out of thin air comparing it to a situation that would never happen.
It’s absurd. I’m not being obtuse, just trying to keep the conversation out of the twilight zone.

@MarkN, just for interest, the Cancer Society came out a couple of days ago saying delayed testing and treatment for I think 3 months could lead to around 400 cancer deaths in NZ.

Similar arguments could be made for the inevitable increase in suicide rate due to massive job losses.

I don't think anyone knows what the numbers will be either way - but it is not going to be a pretty sight :(

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Originally Posted by ebf

@MarkN, just for interest, the Cancer Society came out a couple of days ago saying delayed testing and treatment for I think 3 months could lead to around 400 cancer deaths in NZ.

Similar arguments could be made for the inevitable increase in suicide rate due to massive job losses.

I don't think anyone knows what the numbers will be either way - but it is not going to be a pretty sight :(

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the media was saying along the lines of

400,000 dental treatments canned
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...nt-price-hikes
30,000 elective surgery's canned
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12325949
and the mental health lines having a hammering
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...-lockdown.html
pretty good place to be health wise about now isn't it

oh and
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...-drug-keytruda

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Originally Posted by sneeze

Yes I’m sure a completely unchecked virus would have a significantly higher death toll but it’s not an option that any western govt has taken or anyone here has argued. It’s practically outside the spectrum of possible options. It’s a straw man
You have tried to make a point by taking a percentage you’ve plucked out of thin air comparing it to a situation that would never happen.
It’s absurd. I’m not being obtuse, just trying to keep the conversation out of the twilight zone.

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Thanks sneeze, I guess I was letting my post get too hypothetical.

I'd just finished explaining to someone, somewhere else, that lockdown was better than 'fist pumping yee hah freedom' as practised in 'merica.

Not that I think that's happening in these threads, I just forgot to change up, to a more considered response.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by ebf

@MarkN, just for interest, the Cancer Society came out a couple of days ago saying delayed testing and treatment for I think 3 months could lead to around 400 cancer deaths in NZ.

Similar arguments could be made for the inevitable increase in suicide rate due to massive job losses.

I don't think anyone knows what the numbers will be either way - but it is not going to be a pretty sight :(

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Thanks ebf.

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Originally Posted by striker

the media was saying along the lines of

30,000 elective surgery's canned
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12325949

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I think I'm number 29,972

I'd rather my very painful condition's surgery, was delayed a few months, than you lose any of your relatives to the virus, for lack of lock down measures.

edit:: sorry, came across wrong thanks for the links and info :)

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Originally Posted by Steve123

Even stranger news , why is there an add for "beyond meat" plant protein based burgers on here?


Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

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Im seeing an ad for ladies lycra pants that claim they will eliminate pigs Trotter, or "no more front bum" as it says. WTF have i been looking at to warrant that ad!

Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Mr Browning

So how does immunity work then?

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One explanation is that if a high % of people become immune then they create an effective barrier or firewall to slowdown cross infection. It could lead to eventual elimination of the spread

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Keytruda is one of the chemo drugs that I am on, according to my Oncologist yesterday they will still help and keep on funding this product for me. The other chemos are up to me to sort.

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Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Oh, and I believe you can get chickenpox again as an adult. Its called Shingles - and it sounds not very nice to have.

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shingles is in effect inflammation of your nerve pathways and it is a class A bastard in all respects.I nursed a lady who had bouts of it periodically -the pain was such she wanted desperately to top herself to get some relief! its closely associated with the herpes virus and wait for it your dear old garden variety cold sore on ya gob.
Mums has been associated with sterility in males as has german measles(female) in cases of physical intellectual birth defects. when i started my nursing back in the early 1970s i saw a lot of severely handicapped people from this but with advent of vaccines etc and immunisation programmes ,plus advances in neonatal medicine its not as common in the modern era

Lord there sounds like some really horrible fucked up things you can catch out there. It kinda makes you wonder how they all came about - or have they been around since man walked upright.

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Originally Posted by kotuku

shingles is in effect inflammation of your nerve pathways and it is a class A bastard in all respects.I nursed a lady who had bouts of it periodically -the pain was such she wanted desperately to top herself to get some relief! its closely associated with the herpes virus and wait for it your dear old garden variety cold sore on ya gob.
Mums has been associated with sterility in males as has german measles(female) in cases of physical intellectual birth defects. when i started my nursing back in the early 1970s i saw a lot of severely handicapped people from this but with advent of vaccines etc and immunisation programmes ,plus advances in neonatal medicine its not as common in the modern era

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I have had shingles ..................twice incl once on my face / head and I can confirm it is not really very pleasant. I would have rather had my leg cut off with no anesthetic as I think this would have been less painful

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Originally Posted by mikee

I have had shingles ..................twice incl once on my face / head and I can confirm it is not really very pleasant. I would have rather had my leg cut off with no anesthetic as I think this would have been less painful

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How long did they last for - if you dont mind me asking.

bosses 80 yr old mother had them for several (6 ?) months

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Originally Posted by MarkN

I'd just finished explaining to someone, somewhere else, that lockdown was better than 'fist pumping yee hah freedom' as practised in 'merica.

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The idea "merica" was just 'fist pumping yee hah freedom"

Is just a super tedious far left talking point. It's an election year.

The whole thing is getting a bit embarassing.

You know the line your pushing is coming from a shrinking number of voices, making the loyalties of those voices painfully obvious.

Using mocking, snide, derisive and sarcastic tones to describe things like freedom or free speech?

You really have to go hhmmm . We get the word " Unprecedented " " " Pandemic " and the boogy of the Spanish Flu . Then it's the numbers and the we should go home and hide under the covers .
What should we do if we faced a Pandemic like this https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...-pandemic.html .
And our reaction is this https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-li...demic-of-1969/ .

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Originally Posted by mikee

I have had shingles ..................twice incl once on my face / head and I can confirm it is not really very pleasant. I would have rather had my leg cut off with no anesthetic as I think this would have been less painful

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Commiserations.
Had it dead in the middle of my back many years ago. Thankfully no reoccurrance however I am fully aware though that once you get it you are never rid of it. It lurks in the nerves just waiting for the right circumstances (stress is one) to emerge.

Heard of a person with it behind their eyes.