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Fellas anyone here hunt with subsonics in the pistol calibre rounds, 44 mag, 45 colt or 45 acp, whether in lever guns or other carbines? Interested in hearing your experiences on game with cast and jacketed bullets. How effective do you find the slow moving slugs on medium sized game, and do you find the hollow points offer an advantage.
And subsonic, not subsponic :D
Is that one of them gender fluid rabbits?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Awesome picture, can I ask what range you shot it at and also who did the conversion?
Don't forget 38special is subsonic too
Killed hares and possums with 270g cast flat nose in 44 mag a lot,tried hollow points but they did a lot of damage to meat,definitely better penetration with the solids,the hollow points expand and slow down real quick,the solids punch through anything.always used full power loads on deer though.
Hare with 44mag. 200 or 300gr plated, can't remember which. Unsuprisingly, bullet didn't expand - in stead bored a .429" hole straight through in through the shoulder and out through the neck. It died.
Those big flat meplats still transfer plenty of energy and cause a lot of damage even without expansion.
i hit a bunny with a 300gr 44 mag. wasnt pretty
in the good ol' days occasionally used the 357 rossi on possums. 125gr hollowpoints.
One looked like it had been taken to with an axe
This is interesting. I have a .44 mag and sub load but havent shot anything with it yet. Lol. I am thinking goats really close in, maybe 10-20 m. How is that likely to play out? Or 50m? Projectile is 240 gn xtp with a hollow nose lots of exposed lead. Sorry i cant offer any actual experience, OP!
Iv shot a turkey with my 44/77 ruger with 44 special bullets
it must have missed everything vital as i had to shoot it again
i thought it would be inline with shooting it with a 12ga but really its more inline with a 22lr
the trick is that it has penetration and will keep going in the bigger stuff and will reach the vitals or CNS thats inside
Iv wapped plenty of stuff with my 308sub, I expected the 44 to be a big step up
without the hydroshock effect its just a big stab wound that you wait to kill them from blood loss
The .44 Magnum farkin' flattens big pigs with @shooternz's 270gr pills. Head and neck shots. Have only used the flat nose so far and have 80 odd HPs to try next. Just learn the trajectory and keep the range short.
In .44 Mag with a 12" barrel and DPT, subsonic isn't exactly quiet like a .308 and 16" barrel, but its a lot quieter than full speed factory ammo and easy to use in tight bush where sound reflection is normally a problem.
I’m shooting the Bergara 44 mag single shot which has a 16.5” barrel and DPT. I would always wear ear pro if I had time, even with subs, but it’s ok. Quiet enough that you can hear the hammer drop, mixed in with the report of detonation. Trouble is with these larger calibres it’s just a big hole at the end and the sound gets out whatever you do.
@WillB, what powder are you using? I think I'm using AP70N and it's very easily hearing safe outside of the booth.
I’m using 2205. I reckon it probably is hearing safe but I try to be as cautious as I can with hearing. It’s such a fun cartridge! Easy to load easy to shoot in a light handy rifle. But not as versatile as .308
Good point I'll add to that the question, anyone use this on game? I have been experimenting actually in my 357 lever action. Found at subsonic speed most .357 HP and SP aren't expanding which is to be expected. The 135grain gold dot made for 38 special and 125 grain remington golden sabre seem to be about the best expanding, .55 cal or so at impacts down to about 850fps. That's on water jugs, not sure if this would be much of an idea on pigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
Sounds like you got yours running well if its plugging rabbits. From what I have researched some of these conversions can be a bit finicky, with the exception of gundoc's here. Checking youtube vids on delisle copies and most of them the bloke is picking at least one case out of the action because extraction failed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
I think these carbines are a grand little idea when they run well and I'm looking to get one myself.
that's a nice rifle. Who did your conversion?
Sixtus, there is a thread here somewhere about subs with lots of useful info. I have a Rossi 44 mag break gun and shoot 300 grn at 1025 fps. It will group to 1 inch with three shots @ 100 meters.
I was siting it in at 100 mtrs but found that it was difficult to get the 'hold under' right at shorter distances - I would miss by shooting over the top.
For me having the gun dead on a 60 metres and the 22 the same is perfect. It is easy to allow a 4 inch holdover at 100 and practice with 22 & subs is directly transferable as the trajectories are the same when both are sited at 60 mtrs.
The subs work but need carful placement - Autonomic Plexus is best, tried a few aiming spotsAttachment 122344
They're a big fat 22 sub basically. I have head shot a few goats with a rossi single shot. Worked mint ad they kind of milled around.Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus
Chest shots worked well with the cast lead but a couple took a minute ot expire.
Worked well enough for me to be happy using them in a humane point of view.
I use a 357 Rossi Puma on goats. My favourite load is 38sp brass loaded to max +P data behind 158gn cast flat points. Very accurate. Soft recoil. Any goat I can hit with it up to 150m is a dead goat with a placed shot. I tend to favour/restrict myself to under 100m more because of eyes with open sights. Best advice I can give is find a clay bank where you can see a puff of dirt when bullet hits and practice at measured distances. Really learn to judge distance and learn what the rifle/load combination can and can't do before you start blasting away. Know what sight setting to change to at diff distances. These are not flat shooters. Using the same projectiles with a full house 357mag load I watched my adult son nail goats at 180-200 metres on two occasions. One chest shot, one neck. Both required aiming shots. I don't like that because of wounding potential. I dont recommend it especially with open sights unless you really really know your gun/load. Of interest, both goats were off their feet, rolling downhill on impact. Those lead slugs hit real hard even if they have a rainbow trajectory. No finishing was required. I don't use these loads on small game as I shoot for meat. They would be adequate for deer and pig at appropriate ranges. Great bush rifle as light and fast to aim. Have fun, take care of the game, practice like hell.
Great post Moa Hunter. That cast bullet would be unstoppable. I tend to range these velocities similar to 22LR match ammo as well. Whats the autonomic plexus btw. I'd like to see how the self defence hollowpoints in 44 and 45ACP go. Again not rifle style shocking power, but they expand to 70cal+ on ballistic tests. Penetration on big pigs might be the issue? Not sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Thanks so is that 38+P load in the carbine still subsonic. I'm guessing your are running a bit over if you are plugging things at 150m or do you run a range finder. Its a foot or two holdover at that range for subsonic velocities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
Still under 1000 fps on chrono. Using some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder I have. Nice powder! Also AP70N - a bit dirtier. Holdover is not as bad as you might think. Try plinking at clay banks so you can see the puff of dirt. I set zero on the rear ramp for two positions, 60 and 100 meters. I do a fair bit of random plinking to help gauge distance. I don't have a range finder but step shots out as much as poss. I missed shots early on holding over too much. Overestimating distance.
I see hornady is expanding on their subsonic range and including 45-70 and 450 Bushmaster plus others as well
Where did you get the load data for the ap70n? Its a pistol powder and I don't recall seeing it for 45-70Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
AP70N is great powder for subs. Much less velocity spread than TB. Have a play for load data. Just start out with pistol load data from the likes of Nick Harvey. The start loads are so low for subs that no one will be hitting high pressure. 7.5 grn ap70n with a 300 grn slug in the 44.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
With a 100m zero that bullet has 1 ft drop by 135m and loses an entire extra foot just over the next 20m. Shooting to 150m on goats, If you are out by 15m in your estimation, your bullet is 8-10" off. Thats better range estimation than I can manage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
How about this range of projectiles boys and girls. They are bore riders in the front section which means they don't get distorted taking the rifling with the very thin front jacket over the split lead.Home - Outlaw State Bullets LLCQuote:
Originally Posted by faregame
Using AP70N for 357 Mag and 38sp...don't have a 45-70Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian 22.
Practice helps. I shoot a lot more clay banks than I do goats...plenty of scars, cuts and small slips in Taranaki goat country.Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus
ok well..
you can let the range limit your hunting with subs or you can use rangefinders, ballistic apps and range cards, mildot scopes etc to extend your range to the full potential of yourself and your gear . . not for everyone but its out there if want itQuote:
Originally Posted by sixtus
I agree but you missed the first part of the discussion. I mentioned rangefinding to the fella above but he says he judges subsonics to 150 yards unaided.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossi.45
I shoot a lot of subsonics and don’t like guessing over 80m without a range finder, for my rifle with a 60m zero 100m is 7 inch’s of drop and 25 inch’s at 150m. Too much room for error guessing and would be a debacle getting the range wrong wounding a animal and having to track it for a day or two. Been there done that and not ideal for the animal and a wasted time tracking instead of hunting.
I started shooting with my grandfather when I was 4. That was over 60 years ago. I've done a bit since then. Never had a range finder. Nor did he. Nor my father, uncle, brother or cousins. We didn't go that hungry.
bet you werent shooting animals at range with rainbow like trajectories though........ subsonic centrefire is like .22lr get as close as you can then 5 yards closer.... I dont use a rangefinder either and even at below 75 yards have had enough stuff ups with subsonics trying to headshoot that Ive put a bit more powder in to give a little more room for error and a little less of projectile droop. 30 yards is easy...60 yards not so much.
