Thread: Illegal hunting..does it bother you?

Originally Posted by kukuwai

It pisses me right off !!!!

Here's a good one for you all.....

I rolled into a hut a few weeks back with my 13year old son, there were a couple of young 'hunters' from Nelson just packing up and a tramper in residence.

My young fella asks the 'hunters' if they have seen any deer. "Yea heaps, about 6 i think" was the reply. Given the area I think.....shit that's pretty good.

They carry on packing and I notice a thermal and a couple of spotlights, so does my boy.
We then went outside and my boy says to me.." i don't want to jump to any conclusions but did you see that thermal and spotlights?"

Yep i did, so decide to ask them a question....

"Those deer you seen, they didn't happen to be at night did they?"

"Shit yea bro, I've never actually shot a deer in the daytime"! Was the reply.

Unfucking believable !!! No private land for miles only national park !!!

Turns out from talking to the tramper who returned later in the day that they never actually went hunting in the day only at night !!

I find this sort of shit sooooo disappointing!!










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So all that gear was of no advantage to getting a deer as they didn't get one.

I dont have a thermal but have hunted with guys that do and see them in the same light as a fish finder.
Plenty of guys used thermals on Tahr but that didnt remove enough Tahr to save them from the machines

Looks to me that DG Conservation can make up his / her own rules but not the rest of us. @Tahr.
Can of worms alright.
The reference to "reckless" is interesting too.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....99/index2.html
Post #17 by headcase.

Of course illegal hunting pisses me off.

It ruins the name of hunters in a time where we need to be watching ourselves more than ever.
I’ve lost fantastic access opportunities due to illegal hunting on private land adjacent to the public land i had permission to access. Not to mention legitimate access opportunities closed to general public because of it. Mid Pohangina being just one example I can think of.

I won’t be the only one with a story like this.

And as far as thermals go , i think we can all agree is that they aren’t particularly ethical if you want to hunt in the spirit of hunting.

To me there are degrees of wrong in most situations. Illegal hunting being one of them.
As an example, a friend of mine used to hunt a large block of land in the North Island. It was privately owned (by a Maori trust) and neither he, or the many others who hunted it, ever got permission to do so. It bordered a large DoC block and people used to come and go off it as they pleased. It was not that the land owners didn't know (as some did) but more that they didn't care. The land was not being used for anything in particular and they were doing no harm to it apart from keeping the deer and pig numbers in check. Legally I guess you could say they were poaching as they did not have expressed permission to hunt there and could therefore be prosecuted but practically they were not upsetting anybody (ie the land owner) by being there hunting. Was that such a heinous crime? I don't think you can compare this to something like sneaking onto a game farm at night and shooting the owners prize stag. Someone who does this knows that the owner doesn't want them there and knows they shouldn't be there.
Foot note. The land I mentioned is now leased by a helicopter operator who (naturally) doesn't want people on it other than his paying clients. My mate has now stopped hunting there.

Just checked, you blokes are right no licence required. I think that needs to change

Yes, previously you did need a firearms license to get a DOC Hunting permit but DOC updated the online site. Maybe part reason is that if you are supervising another person in the field who hasn't a firearms license, they too need to apply for a hunting permit. Interesting alright.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Just checked, you blokes are right no licence required. I think that needs to change

No
Bow hunters.
Pig hunters with nothing more than dogs and a knife (and of course the quad).
Non hunting types who tag along with a FAL holder mate out of interest in maybe getting into it as all people tagging along in your party require a DOC permit to hunt whether they are hunting or not.

Works fine as it is, as they say, don't try to fix something that ant broke

Be like only allowing current FAL holders only into any hunting sports shops even if they are there just to check out camping, tramping and fishing gear.

It's interesting that until some time in the last month or two the DOC public policy around thermal contradicted itself. Previously the conditions on the permit itself stated no thermal could ever be used for hunting at any time while the website official unabridged conditions that were linked to when you completed the permit application said thermal could not be used during non-hunting night hours. It looks like either they've updated the website or I can't find the page I found previously. I checked because of all the miscommunication on the subject and found that the permit rules varied from the official rules. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the page so it's gone unless I somehow find an old link somewhere. Given that until now even DOC was contradicting itself I'm not surprised that no one quite knows the rules. In this case until recently, it was completely possible to go to the DOC website, read the official rules, and get two completely different answers.

In terms of ethics, I'd say if you do your due diligence to follow rules as they are written, are conscientious in your behavior, and respect animals (IE ensure a clean quick death), you're fine. I don't really care past that. Hunt with a rocket launcher or pointy stick, if the animal dies quickly then it died better than most wild animals and lived better than some captive animals, so really that's a plus all round. Past that do whatever you want, especially if it doesn't inconvenience others excessively (I'm sure that some trampers will say that hearing a gunshot is unacceptable, so I'm willing to make allowance for small inconveniences... we can't be expected to get along all the time unless we're heavily drugged à la Brave New World).

I'd also say that people deliberately operating far outside the rules (IE shooting from a vehicle with a spotlight, from a public road, onto private land they don't have legal access to, without a firearms permit) aren't hunters... and we'd do well to correct any description of them as hunters to criminals and poachers, otherwise the public will see us as the same.

My take on the DOC permit system is that its only useful purpose is to guide the applicant through any warnings that might be in force for any area select and also to put up the terms against which you tick the yes accept box.
Most of the terms are so open ended as to be pretty useless even as a guideline IMO. e.g.

No firearm shall be discharged:
In the vicinity of huts, tracks, campsites, road-ends or other public places.
Within 500 m of a Great Walk Hut or track. See Great Walks.
In a manner that endangers, frightens or annoys members of the public, or that endangers any property.

In the vicinity of huts, tracks, campsites, road-ends or other public places.
Well excuse me but the whole flipping DOC bit of land your hunting on is probably a 'other public place'

Yes some of it is quite poorly written really when you dissect it.

Fuck me some of you guys really overthink things and make mountains out of mole-hills. The same basic rules of the DOC permit system have existed since 1987 when DOC came into existance and are pretty much the same the same rules as we operated under back in the days of NZFS/Lands and Survey.I've looked back through the odd permit that I have,which were meant to be handed back in,just to check. Admitadly Thermal Vision and to some extent Night Vision are the latest aids, possibly to enable poor hunters? to bag their animals, but at the end of the day it's pretty simple. No hunting 1\2 hour after sunset till 1/2 hour before dawn.
I know we all stretch this from time to time. And yes, I do use thermal/night vision for pest control, they are a usefull tool as a means to an end but I am undecided as to how 'ethical' they are in a "recreational hunter" scenario. As I've stated before, pest control it's a numbers game and possibly your job on the line.But recreationally it's about getting out there,enjoying nature,the solitude of hunting on your own,the comararderie if hunting with others and hopefully the enjoyment of taking a trophy home and/or meat to feed family and friends or those in need.
Rant over,ready for the flaming, not too worried.

Originally Posted by deer243

Unfortunately as we all know a number in our hunting community hunt illegally.
Be it spotlighting DOC, using thermal gear in Doc or hunting without permission on private property. As it happens to be as i know other hunters, forestry workers and other people in
the know i get to hear inforamation that i rather not know and frankly laterly its really pissing me off.

Ok, people are going to spotlight areas, hunt deer in DOC using thermal gear but when you know they shouldnt be and they hunting the areas you hunt in a illegal matter and
these guys are out there spotlighting the place up and doing thermal missions its really annoying me.
They basicly getting easy deer in a place i do hard yards in and making my hunting harder than it should be . Now i dont mind if other people hunt spots i go, i happy tell or take people to DOC blocks and tell them to go for it.
But i want it a fair playing field, good luck to them if they get out there and get a deer but these guys that doing it with spotlights andthermal i have no time for now.

Fact is its annoying me that much i feel like doing something about it. still, do i really want to be a nark? Not really, but people should play by the rules and its having a effect on some of my hunting spots
because people want it the easy way and do it illegally.
Im talking about DOc, and yes, theres a little bit oif a jealous feeling about it as sometimes i wish i could do that but i never do it and i dont see why these guys should be doing it in my neck of the woods.

I hate to say it , but i really dont want hear about the law breakers now as i feel its time something was done and im only going to be pissed off for so long.

I haven't seen any of the others replys, but yes it pisses me off. went camping in some doc land a year or so ago only to have a truck load of teens turn up spotlighting and drinking. we had just got back out of the tree line where they were spotlighting and had our young son with us. I hate to think what would have happened if we popped out of the tree line 20mins later. We lit up camp as much as we could and they vanished pretty quickly but with the racket they made it ended up a very quiet weekend. Nothing we can do about them so we just try and head away during the week now and for a good 3-5 days if we can.

Originally Posted by Chelsea

I haven't seen any of the others replys, but yes it pisses me off. went camping in some doc land a year or so ago only to have a truck load of teens turn up spotlighting and drinking. we had just got back out of the tree line where they were spotlighting and had our young son with us. I hate to think what would have happened if we popped out of the tree line 20mins later. We lit up camp as much as we could and they vanished pretty quickly but with the racket they made it ended up a very quiet weekend. Nothing we can do about them so we just try and head away during the week now and for a good 3-5 days if we can.

Nothing is as it should or could be anymore. The old principles have gone and it's a not so brave world left. Expect the worse and be prepared for it, unfortunately.