Thread: Kaimanawa Forest Park

Originally Posted by Cigar

I'm not convinced of exactly that point. At this stage I have seen no actual evidence that the trust does not own the land the road is on.

FMC have posted on FB that they and other groups are talking with the trust about access.

Have you gone in search of evidence?

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Have you gone in search of evidence?

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access. W

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Have you gone in search of evidence?

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access.

Originally Posted by Tahr

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access.

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Originally Posted by Tahr

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access.

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Of course. It is my job.
There is no unequivocal evidence.
Strong evidence may inform or sway negotiation. Alternatively the weight of public opinion might hold sway despite the lack of evidence. Unlikely.
In the the absence of a negotiated agreement the strength of the evidence will need to be tested in the Courts.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Have you gone in search of evidence?

Yes I have.
Some indicates it isn't public land.
Some indicates it may not be private land.
Some indicates the road may be an easement on the private title (which does not change the ownership, and does not automatically mean the public have right of access).

Websites that show some relevant information don't show all the information needed to find out the answer (e.g the WAMS website).
None of the posts in this thread or the social media posts on this topic have shown evidence of ownership either way.

Originally Posted by Cigar

Yes I have.
Some indicates it isn't public land.
Some indicates it may not be private land.
Some indicates the road may be an easement on the private title (which does not change the ownership, and does not automatically mean the public have right of access).

Websites that show some relevant information don't show all the information needed to find out the answer (e.g the WAMS website).
None of the posts in this thread or the social media posts on this topic have shown evidence of ownership either way.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.

Which maps? The WAMS property information one that show the road may be separate just say "no information available".

Originally Posted by Cigar

Which maps? The WAMS property information one that show the road may be separate just say "no information available".

From the land transfer office.

In regards to Shearer's comment - i believe the paper rd through Poronui Station is actually poled partly through a swamp to the left of the access road that Poronui has allowed the public to walk on to the upper Mohaka? At least you have a reliable car park to safely park your vehicle? Our forefathers may not have walked the route in the day to see it wasn't very practical for a vehicle for most of it? The Waipakihi Road in comparison is just that - a formed rd suitable for driving a vehicle on. Doubt anyone would want to park their vehicle next to SH1 and hope its still there when they return?

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

I'll see if I can find the website again, I think it was a Maori land one.
It didn't say the road was an easement, it simply stated there was an easement to Genesis and it's successors, but not what the easement actually is.

https://www.maorilandonline.govt.nz/gis/title/19945.htm

The last line of the last table mentions the easement.

Originally Posted by Cigar

I'll see if I can find the website again, I think it was a Maori land one.
It didn't say the road was an easement, it simply stated there was an easement to Genesis and it's successors, but not what the easement actually is.

That would be appreciated, even if only to discount it.