Thought that may have been the case.
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Thought that may have been the case.
There is a bit on some of the Facebook posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
We're not farcebook here though ay.
I read the article on stuff, and the one in the Sunday Star times, and note that they are different - and the Star Times paper version appears to say that the land parcel the road is on was given away in the 70's - contradicting what they also had said regarding ownership, but I guess editing or something.
What does interest me is the role of the Federated Mountain Clubs in all of this. Early on reached out to their local rep and received an answer essentially saying we aren't looking to upset the adjacent land owners. She has asked me to keep the details of the email private, but the tone of the correspondence was not at all what I would have expected from a group who have among their stated aims (taken from their website)
all New Zealanders should have free and enabling access to all public land.
FMC will promote the connectivity of public land
where land under non-public tenure, including Crown pastoral lease, separates public land from public access then, following consultation, provision should be made for practical and enduring public access to the public land.
Elsewhere they claim to keep an eye on DOC and the Government, and I take this quote directly from their Vice Presidents online bio - it seems especially apt here
This work has taught me that our conservation estate is managed by often-unaccountable officials,
behind closed doors and sometimes without, necessarily, recourse to the relevant policies or laws.
Finally, while I wonder if it is possible to separate the self appointed guardians of the conservation estate (Public lands, that is - owned by all New Zealanders) from being too intertwined with DOC, and thus concerned with their income as it is a small country, and there is always going to be the same people involved (I know that many DOC staff are there because they really do care).
I am struck by the VERY conciliatory attitude of the Rotorua rep, and note from her FMC bio that her day job is contracting to the Backcountry Trust - a group who do excellent work that should be applauded by all users of the land we all value and love. Digging a tiny bit into the backcountry Trust website give this regarding funding -
Sponsors
We are primarily funded by DOC, but are also supported by a select band of like-minded corporate sponsors to whom we are very grateful. (Italics mine)
I am in an industry that is pretty much entirely to do with government funding one way or another - water and waste water. As a result I have to moderate my public utterances on various subjects - Three Waters, for example, for I know that it could have a direct effect on my ability to win projects, pay my staff and buy my groceries.
I wonder if this applies to other fields as well? I wonder how other folks manage the conflict between their desire to do good and their need to not offend their paymaster?
What we have here is a fairly simple matter -at it's heart is that the land, while not a road, absolutely is Crown owned. The question is, who is going to control it? As we have all seen, ownership is not as important as the ability to control what happens, and I would be very disappointed to see the loss of access that the Waipakahi road allows being lost to satisfy a group with their own commercial gain at the centre of their concerns.
Helisika - I'm done with you.
Not a chance - I'd be willing to bet good money that Helisika will be doing flyin trips to the new Rangipo blocks, and too many deer wouldn't be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I contacted Helisika right at the beginning.
This was from them
Hi Ross
The new venture at Waipakihi road is between Kaimanawa Lands Trust and Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust who are the land owners for Rangipo North 7C.
It is the Lake Rotoaira Trust who are assembling the gate, i will check in with their trustees and clear up the matter.
Kind Regards
Helisika Team
Helisika Limited
07 3842816
info@helisika.co.nz
www.helisika.co.nz
Followed by this
Hi Ross
I have been in contact with the head trustee for the Lake Rotoaira Trust. He has assured me in his words 'The road is on Rangipo North 7C which is “owned” by LRFT and we are within our legal right to protect our lands/assets'
Hope that clears things up for you.
Helisika Team
Helisika Limited
07 3842816
info@helisika.co.nz
www.helisika.co.nz
Which is absolutely incorrect. The land is owned by the Crown, and the Maori Land Court answered this point.
Does this make you any happier? I hope they care more for their machines than they do for the truth.
You have hit the nail on the head here. I believe that this is the absolute heart of the matter and for the sake of continued public access (and to set a president) it is imperative that NZ sees this for what it is and does not sidestep the greater good for the commercial gain of a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
Completely agree with both of these statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
The erosion of public access for the pecuniary gain of private individuals shouldn't be tolerated.
There seems to be a bit of smoke and mirrors at play around ownership of lands and Gaslighting around rubbish being dumped.
I am a little worried that miss Dimozantos is playing both sides too.
Comments elsewhere ring true trampers saying it isn't public land if you do not have access to it.
Public access isn't having to pay for a helicopter flight.
The Kaimanawas need more access.
By all means stop the fuckwits driving all the way in 4wds,have a good roads and a safe carparks.
Surely that is not too much to ask.
Agree 100% about the need for accessQuote:
Originally Posted by erniec
One of my favourite memories of my daughters childhood was one of our walks into the base of Thunderbolt - mid summer when the river levels were safe for an 11 year old, and swimming in the pools on the way back to the car after a night under canvas and a quick look at the flats for a deer at dawn.
There is no way we could have walked over Urchin or through the Southern Access - regardless how easy accepting that as the New Normal (TM) would make life for DOC Turangi.
It appears the same with the aotearoa outdoor access commission who have a noble sounding title and yet say they have done extensive research but after that have declined to take any action despite it being in their statement of performance expectations to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
There is a piece of the jigsaw missing and its not that the Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust actually does own the land.
Apologies for the very long quote. I meant to trim it down a bit more.
I think the bottom line is that Government wants to give the piece of land to the trust.
Nothing else would explain every party that receives funds from the Govt singing the exact same song.
My suspicion is that during the current treaty settlement negotiations the Iwi were told that they would be given title to the land the "road" is on, and someone decided that today, tomorrow, whatever - let's build the gate now. The Crown won't prosecute anyone for being a little early - it was just an excess of enthusiasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
LINZ, the Maori Land Court, everybody agrees on this though - right now, today, the land is owned by the Crown, and the trust have no right to build the gates.
Will anything be done about it? Contact your MP and ask. That is the ONLY thing Government cares about - things that put their next election in jeopardy.
Caught with their p.s. pants down makes the stink even worse.
What winds me up is the fact that the trust/Helisika got over half a million dollars of public money (through the PGF) to block access to the public. We have paid for the privilege of being locked out!
Its fucking insane isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
Communication has been regularly maintained with NZDA execs and continues. They advise to check out "new" on their website in the meantime.
Waipakihi Rd picture from weekend bolted open.Not mine.Attachment 203883
The subject will be on the upcoming NZDA Board meeting.
The subject will be on the upcoming NZDA Board meeting agenda.
It’s clearly not a done deal otherwise the gate would be locked. Knowing how quickly government doesn’t work (including LINZ) hopefully it’s dragged out until late next year when Louise Upston becomes a cabinet minister!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Has anyone had feedback from her?
She has the info from several people but nothing substantial has come back as far as I know.
Her electorate secretary says she is 'working behind the scenes", and to give it time.Quote:
Originally Posted by omark
Which may or may not be the case, time will tell. I do know that this thread is on a handful of radars, and keeping it current is important.
It is very handy that it hasn't slipped into a bash fest on the trust - like everyone they are free to make their decisions, and to live with the consequences (good or otherwise) of those decisions.
I recall driving into the lower Waipakihi back in the early 1970s for a 3 day hunt..there was a gate (open) on an access bridge, but no sign. Three days later, when we started to drive out, the gate was locked. Luckily, I carried a hacksaw.
Haven't we already identified that the access roads are public land and therefore we are all owners?
Yeah but we aren't owners of the Rangipo North blocks on either side - and apparently they will soon be the owners of the land the road is on too. But it's good to see the future owners are discussing the issue, hopefully things come to an agreement that makes everyone happy (except the dickheads who have been dumping rubbish etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by imaca
You beat me too it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
Perhaps these discussions should have happened earlier.
Consultation with all users too in the public domain as well.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/...3m-in-one-year
Genesis profit $231 million.
Net profit $221.9m vs $33.5m previous year. That's vulgar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
They should be good for a few bob to look after those three roads.
And here is the commercial venture website
Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures – Just another WordPress site
This explains a lot. Always wondered why there was a digger in the tops for so long
Hopefully high res enough
Attachment 204974
That'll make for a nice interlude if you're getting a bit fed up with the peace and quiet on the Tongariro Crossing :)
I can't wait to never spend any money with this venture.
The project seeking PGF funding is a construction project being undertaken by Kaimanawa 3B2A and 3B2B Ahu Whenua Trust in partnership with Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust to enable the two respective Trusts to operate a tourism venture. Kaimanawa 3B2A and 3B2B Ahu Whenua Trust was established to administer two Māori freehold land blocks (Kaimanawa 3B2A and Kaimanawa 3B2B), the land where the proposed tourism development is to take place. Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust administers Rangipo North 7C which is a freehold land block adjacent to SH1 (the Desert Road). The project is to construct a mountain bike and walking track that can only be accessed via helicopter (heli-biking and heli-hiking). PGF support is also required to construct associated infrastructure required to operate a venture of this kind. Following the completion of this project, Kaimanawa 3B2A and 3B2B Trust and Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust will operate the venture under the name ‘Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures’. The operation of Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures will be contracted to Helisika Ltd, an experienced third party that has extensive knowledge of the local tourism sector.
So if they dont intend on using Waipakahi road at all for access, why the fk close it!!
The more information I have found about his the more the parties that claimed they had no idea were in fact "Balls Deep" in this. Taupō District Council were well aware and supported it. Same to Bike Taupō (council), destination Taupo and Enterprise Taupō.
Taupo Mayor Trewavas claimed he knew nothing of it and that there had been nil consultation as at last month (July).
So where is your info from ?
I don't know if this has already been shared. I assume its the same venture but 2020 dated??
https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument...ine-adventures
Makes mention of the specific supporters and who is responsible for which tasks in the relationship eg mtb track construction
Yes that is the document I was looking at. 13 Pages, unfortunately some is redacted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamped
I wonder if an OIA on this is worthwhile??
This appears to have gone quiet has anybody had updates?.
