Been taken up by NZDA and related groups. Ask them.
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Been taken up by NZDA and related groups. Ask them.
Very quiet , usually not a good sign. Status really needs to be clear & visible, together with the position of local councillors before the LB elections
Had Cam Speedy at our NZDA meeting the other night he was adamant that the road was Maori land.
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Gates were open two weeks ago.
I'm guessing the land hadn't been transferred to private ownership yet.
Cam Speedy is wrong. I have an email from the Maori Land Court that very clearly states the land belongs to the Crown.Quote:
Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP
People can believe what they want, but the facts are the facts.
Awesome that's good to hearQuote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
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How long ago was the email written, Ross Nolan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
About page 26 of this discussion.
So quite recently.
If you go onto woke websites like Wikipedia or our own Govt websites you will see our history is being quietly rewritten as we speak...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger 888
As to ownership of the road that goes over this easement, technically it belongs to the Crown (local government) since this easement is owned by the Crown and what is on it belongs to the Crown.
Excerpt from email dated 1/8/2022
Recent and/or clear enough?
The info we have seen says the roads and the land they are on is owned by the Crown, but ownership is planned to be transferred to the adjacent landowners.
The day that happens I expect the gates will be closed and locked, unless the groups involved in discussions with the future owners can negotiate some form of access agreement.
Any update on these public roads and access?
Attachment 207417Attachment 207417
Another gate gone in 2 km down Waipakahi road
So "they" are forging ahead regardless of any access challenges then.
www.kaa.co.nz have a look.
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Let's not forget they are offering this too from "their" Waipakahihi base
Hunting – Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures
I have read much inaccurate information regarding the roads to access the Kaimanawa Forest Park from the Dessert Road.
Firstly each road must be treated as a different entity as each road was made via different mechanisms to do with the Tongariro Power Scheme phases 3 and 4
Secondly I am only referring to Waipakihi Road.
Waipakihi Road was Gazetted in 1974. When a road is Gazetted, there is a process in Central Government, the survery, ownership, fell thru various agencies over the years from NZED to Lands and Survey and finally to Taupo District Council.
The Road now is in Private hands.
Rotoaira Forest Trust. Who also now own the land either side of Waipakihi Road.
Those of you who have a version 6 or earlier of TUMONZ with property owner module will be able to see who the previous land owners were.
A trust that went belly up some 3 years plus ago.
Waipakihi Road is the southern most road under Taupo District Councils area. The council does not use the same contractors for road maintenance as NZTA does for the Desert Road. Thus Taupo Council has been "Forgetting" about the maintenance on the road.
NB there is a back history of Taupo District Counci renegging on agreements to do with this road. Eg the Alternative Scenic Road Taupo District Council agreed to complete in 1975 when the Power Project was completed. The Ministry of Works made a well made gravel road linking the 4 roads from Waipakihi to Rangipo Power Station Road to keep the heavy earthmoving equipment off SH1. The Agreement was that Taupo District Council was to upgrade the Gravel Road to a Class1 road with many Campsites (DoCs commitment) along it, with the added feature of it being an alternative to the Sisters if a crash occurred.
When the Project Finished, Taupo Council removed the culverts on the Gravel Road and renegged on the Agreement. Interestingly they also never returned the Terrain or Flora to prior State. Hence the scars visable from Satellite Mapping.
So Taupo District Council, keen to remove a badly deterriated road from thier books, did a back room deal with Rotoaira Forest Trust, DoC, and Heli Sika.
There is also an implication of how the Reciever of the Bankrupt Previous Trust transfered the property into Rotoaira Forest Trusts ownership.
There is no documentation of this transfer.
Back to the Gazetted Road of Waipakihi Road.
There is no paper trail of removal of the Waipakahi Road from the New Zealand Gazette. But Council and NZ Outdoor Access Commission say it is not a Gazetted Road, even though they cannot say how it has been removed from the gazette.
Land Information NZ (LINZ) say Waipakihi Road is still a "Surveryed Centerlined Gazetted Public Road" Still in ownership of the Crown. But they could not answer how the Council and Outdoor Access Commission think it is Private Land.
So Fact, LINZ and the NZ Gazette STILL have Waipakihi Road as a Crown Owner PUBLIC Road as far as the Old DoC Campsight upstream of what we all call the Washed Out Road/ Washed Out Culvert/ River Ford. From the Campsite on the South Bank to 300m beyond the joining of the Waikato Stream is designated as a Gravel Pit. Crown Owned.
Heli Sika and Rotoaira Forest Trust have a deal with DoC to fly Mountain Bikers who can afford it to the Upper Waipakihi Valley (Waipakihi Hut and/or Pinnicles) so the Cyclists can bike down to the new ShedBOSS building on Waipakihi Road. Interestingly Taupo District Council Approved and signed off on this building. In and area that actually needs a Resource Consent.
Taupo District Council DO run scared of the Lake Rotoira Forest Trust. As do many other organisations in the region who must deal with them. Including DoC and RAL.
There has been a full complaint submitted to the NZ Ombudsman regarding these Back-Room-Deals, and transfers without the correct process by Taupo District Council. There are another 8 Complaints being Investigated by the Ombudsman over other Back-Room-Deals Taupo District Council have made in "Closed Workshops"
Tree Trunk Gorge Road, Rangipo Dam Road, and Poutu Dam/Rangipo Powerstation Road have different Status as Roads, and as such are not included in my brief.
Taupo District Council have continually dodged the question, with time honoured techniques of distration, when did the process to remove Waipakihi Road from the NZ Gazette Occur. AND what was the process?
It is dificult to remove a Gazetted Road and transfer into Private Property. Plus via Treaty of Waitangi or Public Works Land Confiscation Act the process is longer and bigger.
Either Way there MUST be public consultaion of intent to remove a Gazetted Road from the NZGazette.
Non on record.
Final Footnote, NZ Access Commision is a Crown Entity the Crown uses to "advertise to the public" and to "Officially Notify". Also the Comission says they are a "Lobby Group" to gaurantee access to the outdoors for all NZers, however in practice the Government uses the Comission as a way of "we asked the public" for Parliamentary Select Committee Submissions and Feedback IN FAVOUR of what the Government is Trying to Pass as Law.
Ross read my Article and deep research.
Anton, Matt's mate.
I have learnt from a personal experience that deals aligned to Treaty decisions do NOT require public consultation. Welcome to our future.
Heli Sika will have made a commercial decision.
I do not imagine they have "ownership" of the road.
They may have helped it happen.
And no, that's not a racist comment, but an observation based on reality.
@Snow4wd
Thankyou for that very commendable work. I am sure many of us look forward to the Ombudsman findings.
However; my past dealings with Ombudsman indicate that office has no poers of correction but only to make recommendation to the appropriate Minister of the Crown. A usual prior requirement is that such Minister must have been approached prior to Ombudsman creating an investigation. Perhaps in this case it may be the Minister for Local government?
Three forum members approached Taupo Council about this matter and the Mayor Trewavas denied any knowledge of the issue and stated to me that he was unaware of any public consultation having takeb place. At a meeting we attended on the subject the legal advisors to TDC brought no light to the matter either.
NzDA chief and deputy execs were fully informed by us at that time. The only other update I am aware of was a proposed closed meeting within the Rotoaira forest trust for 12th Sept but I do not know what disussions actually took place; nor any outcomes since.
Please keep us updated if you can.
Kind regards--
Sounds like the Taupo mayor was correct then that there were no 'public consultations having taken place'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Rather, closed to public consultations may have taken place?
An issue that has recently been highlighted by the ombudsman regarding local government and democracy.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ncil-workshops
Then again, here's an article from 2 years ago about the ombudsman looking into public excluded council workshops.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-sta...ssion-welcomed
In fact at the meeting we held with TDC Mayor and CEO REP and their legal advisor, that legal advisor specifically stated to us that TDC did not own Waipakihi road. I have now suggested to NZDA CEO to read the recent inputs in our forum on the matter.
I would not be voting for re election of the Taupo Mayor - he's full of sh.t.
Taupo Mayor has no say .hes not aloud to make decissions ,he has to ring other parties first
Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by erniec
If you have hunted the valley you might know where the “Glamping” spot on their site is. Looks very much like Jap Flats.
Possibly going to push a cycle track up the true left of the river looking at their site.
I’m a mountain biker and hunter. Probably a better or more accomplished mountain biker. But hunting is my first love.
Ridden the Heaphy, Old Ghost Rd, a bunch of minor West Coast tracks, Nelson & Lakes, Motatapu and a shit load of North Island tracks & races.
Have to be honest, it looks awesome, I’ll be lining up to do this. It’s private land/property and good on them for finding a way to make a dollar from it.
Of course the great shame should it eventuate, would be the denial of access for us as hunters into the doc estate, which is there for all.
And from what I’ve read in previous comments, there seems to be little sound reason for blocking it now..
Access to the park and what they want to do are not competing for the same bums on seats.
Trampers and hunters are not their targeted market.
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Well their website does quote hunter trip prices from the Waipakihi Rd base to Waipakihi Hut and other locations on that side of the park? Looks like they are covering all areas of recreational activities? The vid just focuses on mountain biking as a cover?
Not saying I agree with the access/road issue, quite the opposite. But the mtb aspect is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
Plus it should give hunters who want to fly, better access into the southern end of the park. 5 min flight rather than 15min.
I’d expect with the nature of riding there will be plenty of empty return flights, so possibly Helisika will offer a walk in fly out options where we can snag a cheap ride out.
But then HS are not known for value for money, so I wouldn’t hold my breath..
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Helisika and 'snag a cheap ride out' have never gone in the same sentence:D:D:D:D
But it gives hunters who want to walk no access. It's a crock of shit and no amount of rolling it in glitter will disguise this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauries Hut
To quote Aldo Leopold "Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal" that is the standard we as hunters should hold ourselves and those we do business with to. @Lauries Hut. I respectively ask you to consider this when thinking about supporting this operation.
Helisika doing honey or hive deliveries into the park mow
Hunting – Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures
just looking at their price list. A few cheaper flights from their waipakahi base, but thunderbolt tops drop off for example still the same price as from helisika base .
As noted several pages back, I sat in a meeting with Woody and XR500 at the Taupo Council offices.
Mayor Trewavas, the council counsel and the deputy CEO were there. The Mayor and counsel both said they were unaware of the issue before we contacted them, and initially claimed Waipakihi road wasn't even in the councils area of responsibility. We now see that the council had made a submission in support of the Trust/Helisika plan, as had Enterprise Taupo - funded in main by the council.
I am left with two possible answers as to the statements from the council
1) They are so fantastically incompetent that they were unable to recall writing a submission in favour of what I think is the largest landholder in the district, or
2) they were lying.
Anyone out there with an alternative scenario? I left Africa because of this sort of corrupt bullshit, and I am horrified to see it arriving here.
Hence my earlier reply that the Mayor was full of bullsh.t. He must think that's okay to lie? And on the topic of the heli price from the Waipakihi Rd for hunters - 2k to the Waiapakihi Hut isn't cheap compared to flying from their Poronui base? Though no option for anything smaller than the Squirrel from the Waipakihi Rd end? This Govt is allowing past public access that once was to be locked out unless you pay $$$ - go figure. And according to media statements online because of 'flytipping' in the area? Really. Also comments from the mods on the Huts and Backcountry FB suggest we are being racist about the Urewera's hut removal and things will get better though Tuhoe are quoted they wish to remove 'Western influence' from the park? All such a pity really - the downhill slide.
Yeah, I have an alternative scenario, based on the thesis "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." though I'm inclined to substitute ignorance for stupidity in this case. I'm not at all surprised that the Council reps at your meeting didn't know of this . I'd speculate that providing a submission in favour of something like this would not be something that crosses any of their desks, and if it did it would be supported particularly having regard for the party proposing it, and the current political climate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
Also expect the proposal provided to Council and the PGF wouldn't have noted that the public access would be closed.
