Waipakahi road us open .End of road pretty washed out .First creek to cross before river is ok today. River in flood so no crossing there .Up river plenty rocks moved so old track up river will need to be checked after river goes down .
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Waipakahi road us open .End of road pretty washed out .First creek to cross before river is ok today. River in flood so no crossing there .Up river plenty rocks moved so old track up river will need to be checked after river goes down .
good to see the gates are still open for now. Hopefully if those who visit can keep the place tidy then the owners might not use that as an excuse to close them... heres hoping anyway. its a bloody great place to hunt, be a shame to lose it.
An Acetylene torch will be your best friend going forward
Looking at photo number 1, you couldn't just drive around the right hand structure in a 4WD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Maybe ? Can tell you one thing if I was still living up there and that was my local hunting area I wouldnt be lying down and taking that rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
At a glance last time I drove past the gate there was rather large concrete structures to the side. Maybe power poles or something to that extent laying downQuote:
Originally Posted by Ranger 888
There's numerous ways around that gate location, but that's not the point: the roads on Crown land. Period.
Agree and loss of access is/should be a concern to all access to most of NZs public land needs to be increased and improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
And at the same time deal to shitheads, they reflect badly on all users be them hunters 4wds trampers or campers.
The Youtube videos showing dickheads cutting down trees, why weren't they prosecuted.
I wouldn't be so certain about the illegality of the situation. If there was certainty it would be challengeable in court - and that hasn't happened.
What has really surprised me is the ambivalence DOC, the Access Commission, Tramping Federation/Fed Mountain Clubs, Taupo Council and NZDA etc have shown towards the situation. I've pretty much talked to and raised it with every outdoors organisation I have contacts with and the answer has been the same. "We are watching the situation, we are concerned, there is other access, there is nothing we can do" ...
Has anyone got an update on if anything positive is happening to get the situation resolved?
Possibly not challenged in court because of the cost.
Others will know better than me.
But years ago, I was advised to challenge an irrigation consent issue was $5k to lodge.
Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk
I am guessing that until they actually shut the gate and block access it will be hard to make something stick.
The ombudsman is involved, with particular regard to TDC's role in the matter. They have been negligent in their responsibilities of maintaining the road, and have made statements both publicly and in meetings that are demonstrably wrong, that they knew were so.
It looks like the CEO has moved on before his contract is up also, so things are (veeeeert slowly) happening.
My personal belief is that both the Govt and TDC would prefer that the land was given to Iwi, and they could then wash their hands of the matter - "it's private land, nothing to do with us"
I think one thing is for certain - If the gate is locked and Helisika get their way it sets an extremely dangerous precedent for ALL back country users. Not just us self-centered hunters.
It will end badly .
Seems to me that the Ombudsman’s office typically says either ‘nothing to see here’ or on occasion ‘that was wrong’ , with the emphasis on the past tense? And even more rarely ‘ best you apologise’. I’m not aware of examples where the office says ‘back up and undo that’?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
Good on you for trying, but I don’t understand how the Ombudsman can unwind this?
Ombudsman can make recommendations to the relavent ministers for action. Apart from that, if public servants have acted innapropriately that PS authority must take action.
Yes, Ive also contacted FMC, NZDA and te herenga (walking access) and got the same response from each: “Lets see how it plays out .”Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
I would love to get that response if it was access to the local park or a road to their house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Re, the apparrent bs from TDC. The State Services Commissioner is the agency to examine conduct.
Correct. The Ombudsman has no powers of enforcement but can be quite persuasive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
Yep agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan F
It sorta seems to me it's like the "possession is 9 tenths of the law" type of thing.
its how these things go
the gate is put in but never closed
then the gate starts getting closed
the gate then gets locked
no access anymore
gas torches are big and messy, the ones that do it up here use 18v makita angle grinders and cut off disks
I do enjoy when small sticks and or super glue finds its way into the locks key part
Yeah, understand that...but in cases like this that kinda response just helps validate the decision to close access, imo. Can help confirm the view that those who used/want to use the place are just arseholes ..... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
As @Tahr said earlier, the silence from the various advocacy organisations (and public entities) is disappointing, if not unsurprising. And its nearly always easier to stop stuff from happening in the first place, rather than trying to reverse it once it has happened. Maybe crowd funding for legal advice as to what the options might be (or NZDA members asking their executive what their advice said) ?
While speculation about vandalism of locks that currently aren't in place is probably not in our interest, the facts seem to be that the only illegal action by anyone so far is the construction of gate structures on a Crown owned piece of land.
The Crown does appear to have given out a song sheet to the various interested (and some supposedly independent) bodies involved, as it is almost inconceivable that they could all be so closely aligned by some random arrangement of the stars.....
I agree 100%. It got to be a lot easier to try and keep the land in Crown ownership, than to get it changed back once it's been transferred to private owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
This here has had a update back in October,a lot more research gone on.Kudos to researcher ya earned Christmas break.Cheers https://www.herengaanuku.govt.nz/abo...ipakihi-roads/
Seems to be a government department but what its maori language means is incomprehensible to me.
Outdoor Access Commission renamed apparently, interestingly appears to be involved in this case a reduction in outdoor access for the public.
My take on it anyway.
Am I reading that correctly?? Definitely crown owned land for the road access, at the moment they can't do a bloody thing to stop public access and there is no real reasoning that it is going back to the Maori trust apart from back in the late 1800s there was no access routes or roads over the land (like most of the undeveloped country in that era).
Who was the “former owner” of the Waipakihi Road land ?
I had thought it was taken from the Tongariro National Park or equivalent at the time.
This is the only piece if land that is proposed to be returned to “the former or adjacent land owners”.
That strongly suggests that the adjacent land owners are distinct from the former land owners and that its transfer to the Lake Rotoaira Forest Trust is not inevitable.
As @Tahr says, there is plenty of scope for legal debate but this may enable the road land to be transferred to secure publuc ownership and access.
https://www.facebook.com/index.php?s...8VgA1u3hs-rzch
this post shows a lockd gate - presumably up to the hanger?
Cant access the photo @stumpys. Can you save it and post it here?
Gates are not locked but road has been renovated and all the pot holes are fixed to native .As from there even a good 4x4 will have issues getting to the river after the last rain.
At least something good has come out of this debacle. Mind you, the pot holes did a good job of keeping out civvies looking for a spot to camp just off SH1. An increase in that won't help.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawekakid
@stumpy - is that a locked gate across the main access road ? Or a side road off it ?
That’s the gate up to the new helisika lodge / landing site.
First, my email to Mr Little, sent in August
Dear Minister
I am writing to you to urge you to reconsider giving the piece of land known as Waipakihi Road away in settlement negotiations.
It has recently become public knowledge that the Rangipo North 7C trust intend to block public access to the Western Kaimanawa ranges currently accessed via Waipakihi Road. This road is not, in fact a road, but was taken from the Tongariro National Park and the Kaimanawa Forest Park for the purposes of hydro power development in 1968.
Since then, the road has become an iconic and popular access point to people wishing to explore, fish, hunt and raft the Kaimanawa ranges, as well as the Waipakihi and downstream Tongariro rivers.
Recently, a joint venture between a local helicopter operator and the Rangipo North 7c Trust have obtained approximately $600,000 from the PGF and have constructed a helicopter base to fly mountain bikers into a track heading down from the Needles area to the base. It would seem logical that this base will also be used to fly hunters into the Maori owned blocks adjacent.
To preserve the exclusive access necessary for maximum commercial benefit the Trust have erected a gate across the piece of land the road is on, with the announced intention of blocking public access.
We believe that this has been done in the expectation that the land will become theirs through the negotiation process, and that they are simply advancing the calendar.
This is a very important access point for many New Zealanders, as it is one of only 5 roads to access the Western Kaimanawa ranges (3 of which are also currently under threat of closure), and the only one that offers driveable access to the river – essential for younger and less physically able people.
The Iwi have publically stated the action is the result of rubbish dumping – I am sure this may be a small part of the case, but am very doubtful it is anywhere near as important as the effect access will have on their publically funded commercial venture. In any event, this is a problem faced by any New Zealander with a road on their boundary, and closing public access would not be tolerated in any other case I believe.
It is our firm belief that the greater good for New Zealand would be served by this piece of land remaining in the possession of the Crown, with access to the all available in perpetuity.
We remain,
Yours faithfully
Aaaaaaand his response, notable for what it doesn't say, as much as what it does
As I understand it the mention of Part 7c is to do with a collapse of the Trust that previously owned the land North of the "road", and the subsequent non-transfer of the assets to the new trust - which just carried on operating.
The crucial parts are his sentence "Part Rangipo North 7b is still in Crown ownership".
Not Helisika.
Not anybody else.
It would appear then, that the gates are constructed on land that does not belong to the Trust, but rather is owned by all New Zealanders, and held by the Crown for all.
P.S. 6 months for a reply to a fairly simple enquiry - I wish I could run my business like that. Customers might get grumpy though.
Looking at the survey map in PillowDribblers link above, part 7b is the first several hundred meters of the road from SH1, and is in Crown ownership (as is the surrounding land), after that all the way to the river its part 7C which is also Crown land - but not for long going on that email :oh noes:
