Kaimanawas 1080 drop

Confirmation Bias - people have an opinion on an issue, then seek out and reference the info that supports their view and ignore everything else.

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Originally Posted by top gun

Gimp me old trout, if you have a computer than you can either bung a DVD into it or go online as I suggested ( nicely I thought??) and watch it.

As for your last comment?? Tell me how video film taken in the bush can be doctored or filmed on a film set. The Graf lads didn't have the technology like the Dept of Corruption to set up a video of a possum AND a rat together eating a fledgling in its nest.

Keep your head firmly buried and your vision of what's REALLY happening to our bush & native species will expand enormously!!!!!:yuush:

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MacBook Air, sucker

Hey Top Gun (how the hell do you tag someone with a space in their forum name ???)

So tell me this... how many days a month do you spend in the bush ? Do you happen to have any tertiary level education in ecology/conservation ?

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Originally Posted by gimp

MacBook Air, sucker

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Pardon????? Were you being rude there Gimp???? Tsk! Tsk!!!

You'll have to do better than that!!!:yaeh am not durnk:

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Originally Posted by ebf

Hey Top Gun (how the hell do you tag someone with a space in their forum name ???)

So tell me this... how many days a month do you spend in the bush ? Do you happen to have any tertiary level education in ecology/conservation ?

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Jeez Elf "tag someone with a space in their forum name"????? Watcha on about there Elfie?????

AND: what was the point of you second comment???? Degrees in all that crap are NOT required quals for seeing what's missing in our bush??? LIKE NO BLOODY FLIES in the peak of the summer!!!!!! That's not a bad indication that "something" is wrong with the environment eh???? & I'm just a dumb bathplug really, as you can clearly tell.

Keep smoling that shit, you'll come right eventually.:yaeh am not durnk:

Bro what the fuck, go hunting, or do something.
Hang with scribe just don't start shit fights here.


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Originally Posted by Savage1

Topgun,

- Why does DOC support 1080? Especially with their lack of funding.
- Why does Forest and Bird vehemently support 1080?
- Why does the government support 1080?
- Why does the AHB support 1080?

Pretty simple questions which I can answer easily.

Don't try and tell me a very small poison industry manages to bribe an entire government including opposition parties, DOC, AHB and F&B all the while also influence the studies done to the positive and negative effects of the toxin. Maybe all the antis just have shares in other poison companies.

My Grandfather was a die hard conservationist and studied the effects of 1080 and got into the forests before and after the drops. He was a very honest and intelligent man. He was a big fan of 1080, he said to me that it wasn't perfect but it was far far better than any other option we had. I've watched the Graff videos too.

What's your order of priorities:
- Deer hunting
- Forest conservation, fauna and flora
- Animal wellbeing/suffering

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Savage,
1. 1080 ( sodium mono fluoro acetate) is listed by the FBI as the 2nd most toxic SUPER toxin in existence. ( that should tell you something)
2. The stuff is banned in almost every country in the world apart from the US & Oz & they don't toss it out of monsoon buckets all over the countryside
and into waterways etc.
3. The shit kills everything that uses Oxygen ( known fact)
4. Every scientist who has worked for DOC or other depts who has produced adverse reports on the downstream effects of 1080 have lost their
jobs or contracts. ( Whiting-O'keefes, Mike Meade, Graham Cauley) just to name a few.
5. All TRUE hunters who have been into forested areas within the weeks & months after a drop find the bush DEAD, no birds,no animals,smell of dead
deer etc, no flies, no fuck all except bloody wasps.

You only have to watch "Poisoning Paradise" DVD to see what it does to our native birds, just imagine what the shit is doing to the bugs & beetles in the leaf
litter & in the streams & creeks.

So there ya go, you asked!!!! I'm sure you'll find plenty in that lot to pick holes in but what I have said is FACT & I'm sure that there are plenty of REAL hunters on this forum who will agree with my comments.

Got any new material?

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Bro what the fuck, go hunting, or do something.
Hang with scribe just don't start shit fights here.


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Brads. Anyone who fires shots at me you can expect a few back!!!:pissed off: Not sure what " hang with scribe" means?????

Ok why is that all you anti 1080 activists are so pig headed?
Scribe is a insane 1080 activist who runs "NZ hunter and the hunted" go check it out.


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Originally Posted by top gun

Pardon????? Were you being rude there Gimp???? Tsk! Tsk!!!

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Quite regularly: yes

Also I've been in and out of forests generally rather than posting long, wrong, things on the Internet

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Originally Posted by top gun

Jeez Elf "tag someone with a space in their forum name"????? Watcha on about there Elfie?????

AND: what was the point of you second comment???? Degrees in all that crap are NOT required quals for seeing what's missing in our bush??? LIKE NO BLOODY FLIES in the peak of the summer!!!!!! That's not a bad indication that "something" is wrong with the environment eh???? & I'm just a dumb bathplug really, as you can clearly tell.

Keep smoling that shit, you'll come right eventually.:yaeh am not durnk:

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It's actually ebf, not elf

1080 gets aerially applied plenty in Australia to control foxes and wild dogs, but you're right that it's not broadcast to nearly the same extent as New Zealand.
The US have used far more persistent pesticides than 1080 in their off shore eradication programs.

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Originally Posted by gimp

It's actually ebf, not elf

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maybe he got slightly confused looking at my avatar :D

elf = gnome in some languages

still waiting for him to say how much time he actually spends in the bush, I reckon you'd win that one hands-down !

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Come over to the kawekas

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Kawekas are getting it too. All 15,000 hectares of it

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Originally Posted by top gun

Savage,
1. 1080 ( sodium mono fluoro acetate) is listed by the FBI as the 2nd most toxic SUPER toxin in existence. ( that should tell you something)
2. The stuff is banned in almost every country in the world apart from the US & Oz & they don't toss it out of monsoon buckets all over the countryside
and into waterways etc.
3. The shit kills everything that uses Oxygen ( known fact)
4. Every scientist who has worked for DOC or other depts who has produced adverse reports on the downstream effects of 1080 have lost their
jobs or contracts. ( Whiting-O'keefes, Mike Meade, Graham Cauley) just to name a few.
5. All TRUE hunters who have been into forested areas within the weeks & months after a drop find the bush DEAD, no birds,no animals,smell of dead
deer etc, no flies, no fuck all except bloody wasps.

You only have to watch "Poisoning Paradise" DVD to see what it does to our native birds, just imagine what the shit is doing to the bugs & beetles in the leaf
litter & in the streams & creeks.

So there ya go, you asked!!!! I'm sure you'll find plenty in that lot to pick holes in but what I have said is FACT & I'm sure that there are plenty of REAL hunters on this forum who will agree with my comments.

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So you didn't answer a single one of those questions, just tried sidestepping the obvious as most antis do.

1 - No one cares what the FBI rate the poison as, it's irrelevant.
2 - We have a unique situation situation in this country in regards to having virtually no native mammals, whether other countries use it or not is irrelevant, they aren't in the same situation.
3 - No shit, it's a poison, you could say the same about salt, sulphuric acid, petrol, cyanide etc. Once again, irrelevant.
4 - That's a very broad sweeping statement, I haven't looked into each of their cases, were their studies peer reviewed? Shown to be biased or inaccurate?
5 - Are you saying that no 'true' hunters support 1080? What defines a true hunter? Is it possible to be a 'true' hunter and a conservationist at the same time?

I didn't ask for any of that, I asked specific questions and you decided to regurgitate ignorant statements and ignored what I asked.

I don't know why I bother, we've both made up our minds.

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Originally Posted by Savage1

Topgun,

- Why does DOC support 1080? Especially with their lack of funding.
- Why does Forest and Bird vehemently support 1080?
- Why does the government support 1080?
- Why does the AHB support 1080?

Pretty simple questions which I can answer easily.

Don't try and tell me a very small poison industry manages to bribe an entire government including opposition parties, DOC, AHB and F&B all the while also influence the studies done to the positive and negative effects of the toxin. Maybe all the antis just have shares in other poison companies.

My Grandfather was a die hard conservationist and studied the effects of 1080 and got into the forests before and after the drops. He was a very honest and intelligent man. He was a big fan of 1080, he said to me that it wasn't perfect but it was far far better than any other option we had. I've watched the Graff videos too.

What's your order of priorities:
- Deer hunting
- Forest conservation, fauna and flora
- Animal wellbeing/suffering

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Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

You need no get out more deer243. Thats a load of old rubbish.

Yeah, I'm not that up to speed on the finer points of the 1080 argument, but something from my observations on the internet regarding other subjects that I DO know a bit about: Massive overuse of punctuation marks are a sign. Oooh yes they are.

Love a good 1080 debate :XD:
I don't get out very much now but I used to get out a bit. I've been in 1080ed areas and it's so dead it's unbelievable. So on that note I don't like 1080, and I like to go possum shooting and I spot lighting the little fuck rs too:P

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Originally Posted by ebf

maybe he got slightly confused looking at my avatar :D

elf = gnome in some languages

still waiting for him to say how much time he actually spends in the bush, I reckon you'd win that one hands-down !

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Sorry about the elf bit there Elb!!! No offence meant. Have been hunting the kaimanawa's & the whirinaki for nearly 40 years. Not as much as I used to when I had a real job ( 2 or 3 times a month ) but I probably get 10 or 15 days down in Jap country a year now that I work 6 days a week.

Do I qualify????? I didn't realise we were scoring points???:wtfsmilie:

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Ok why is that all you anti 1080 activists are so pig headed?
Scribe is a insane 1080 activist who runs "NZ hunter and the hunted" go check it out.


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No need to be rude there Brads!!!!! Go into the native within a week of an aerial drop & you'll see for yourself. It appears to me that you haven't done that yet???? Have you????

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Originally Posted by deer243

Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

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Shit oh deer, I'm lost for words there deer243. I couldn't have put it better myself!!!! BLOODY WELL DONE THAT MAN!!!!!:thumbsup:

Have a go at THAT Savage!!!!:P

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Originally Posted by turtle

It's not simply a matter of 1080. It's us that are destroying the bush, trying to get it back to what it was before we arrived.Based on a cockeyed view of a few interlectuals.

If we just stopped interfering and let nature balance it all out. Might take some time but it will happen.

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Turtle ( & others) Read Bill Benfield's book "The Third Wave" It's being reprinted now after the first lot sold out.

It goes right back to the 6 to 12 mill Moa's & how they modified our native bush. A bloody interesting read. Should be available again soon.

http://newzealandecology.org/nzje/2913.pdf

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Originally Posted by top gun

It goes right back to the 6 to 12 mill Moa's & how they modified our native bush.

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Modified?!? For a species to MODIFY an existing ecosystem, wouldn't that specifies need to be INTRODUCED to an existing ecosystem? My understanding is that the various Moa species evolved in NZ from day one, when NZ broke away from whatever larger landmass.

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Originally Posted by deer243

Well, i tell you the answers to some of them!
1 Why does DOC support 1080......DOC are muppets of the Government..they get told what to do and do it, the Government tell them support it and thats it. Its no secret that anyone in DOC wont speak out about 1080 if they dont agree with the BS thats fed to the public otherwise they get sacked/end of story.

2 Why does forest and bird support 1080? ...... Who the fuck knows! Maybe they actually believe the 1080 works and is the best form of control to save the birds and the forests, as no doubt 1080 certainly wipes out possuoms, the bird egg eating and forest destroying machines they are lol. Others say its political, and as they joined up with the FED Farmers on support for 1080, these two hugely political players are right in the middle of the big business machine which is 1080, its a massive industry with big back handers, pest control is just a little part of the whole big business machine.


3 Why does the Government support 1080....... Its big business as stated before, pressured by very big politcal players in Forest and bird and Fed Farmers, its votes, its back handers on a big scale, its jobs, its politcal and lastly the Government owns the 1080 factories, its money...its Bs on a massive scale, ..no one will speak out about it, no one wants to slap the hand that feeds them..need i say more.


4AHB why they support it........ They dont care about the costs, they know it kills possums better than any other method, it works. Its what matters to them, and they in the same boat, political pressure, involved in a industry which isnt just all about pest control, its far bigger than that.

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1)So DOC uses a product that does more harm on the forest than it does good because they're told to and they're all silenced by threat of losing their jobs?

2)How big is the 1080 "big business machine"? How many tonne do they go through and how much does it cost per tonne? And do you really think it is because of back handers that Forest and Bird support 1080?! Is that seriously the best that you can come up with?

3)How is 1080 big business? It's tiny on the scale of things! So the government bribes DOC, F&B and all the other political parties to support 1080 just to keep their factory going. Where do you come up with this crap?! Did it occur to you that maybe F&B knows more than you?

4) No doubt AHB/OSPRI supports it because it is so effective.

So basically summing up your view, the government owns the factory that produces 1080 so they force 1080 to be rained upon the native bush regardless of it causing more harm than good, and they do this by back handers to all people that use it and applying political pressure to DOC, F&B, OSPRI, opponent political parties etc etc just to turn a profit, much of which comes directly from it's own funding through DOC and OSPRI and this profit must be of such an amount to offset all of costs incurred by applying it and paying off everybody to keep their mouths shut and be such a huge amount that it warrants the risk of such corruption in the highest level of government.

My view is that it quite simply works and despite its numerous faults, it's the best option that we currently have. Nobody needs to be paid off.

Can someone let me know who I need to call to get my 1080 bribes? They haven't come through yet

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Originally Posted by Savage1

1)So DOC uses a product that does more harm on the forest than it does good because they're told to and they're all silenced by threat of losing their jobs?

2)How big is the 1080 "big business machine"? How many tonne do they go through and how much does it cost per tonne? And do you really think it is because of back handers that Forest and Bird support 1080?! Is that seriously the best that you can come up with?

3)How is 1080 big business? It's tiny on the scale of things! So the government bribes DOC, F&B and all the other political parties to support 1080 just to keep their factory going. Where do you come up with this crap?! Did it occur to you that maybe F&B knows more than you?

4) No doubt AHB/OSPRI supports it because it is so effective.

So basically summing up your view, the government owns the factory that produces 1080 so they force 1080 to be rained upon the native bush regardless of it causing more harm than good, and they do this by back handers to all people that use it and applying political pressure to DOC, F&B, OSPRI, opponent political parties etc etc just to turn a profit, much of which comes directly from it's own funding through DOC and OSPRI and this profit must be of such an amount to offset all of costs incurred by applying it and paying off everybody to keep their mouths shut and be such a huge amount that it warrants the risk of such corruption in the highest level of government.

My view is that it quite simply works and despite its numerous faults, it's the best option that we currently have. Nobody needs to be paid off.

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There you go again. Being all logical.

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Originally Posted by gimp

Can someone let me know who I need to call to get my 1080 bribes? They haven't come through yet

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Spectre I believe.

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Originally Posted by stretch

Modified?!? For a species to MODIFY an existing ecosystem, wouldn't that specifies need to be INTRODUCED to an existing ecosystem? My understanding is that the various Moa species evolved in NZ from day one, when NZ broke away from whatever larger landmass.

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Hasn't it also been shown that the Moa didn't inhabit the deep bush and just inhabited the verges? This was shown by the Maori being able to drive them too extinction as the Maori didn't populate the deepest areas of the forest.

Wonder whether Moa burgers would be any good?

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Originally Posted by Tommy

Wonder whether Moa burgers would be any good?

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Probably tastes like chicken

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Originally Posted by gimp

Can someone let me know who I need to call to get my 1080 bribes? They haven't come through yet

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Contact deer243. It is really just part of an elaborate cover up. He's a government agent.
The strategy is to make the spin sound so unbelievable that no one will tumble to their cunning plan.

I blame Donald Trump.

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Originally Posted by stretch

I blame Donald Trump.

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He knows words!

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Contact deer243. It is really just part of an elaborate cover up. He's a government agent.
The strategy is to make the spin sound so unbelievable that no one will tumble to their cunning plan.

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Its a no win arguement...you so clearly pro DOC and 1080 from other posts in the past you have your opinion set, i have mine. One thing is for sure, if you(and savage) actually believe 1080 is just about pest control you in a dreamland. 1080 is a industry, theres been so much BS said on it its a joke, its very political and its controled by the govnerment...not DOC, they the muppets that do as they told.
Pro 1080 supporters attack anti 1080 the same way as anti ones attack the pros.
You think im a joke...i think your heads in the sand and as much a joke as you think i am. Thousands support each view, but many Pro 1080 supporters are often involved in DOC , or have some invested interest somewhere and are bias to the bone. Nearly pointless trying to change anyones mind, as you either in one camp or the other,

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Originally Posted by deer243

Its a no win arguement...you so clearly pro DOC and 1080 from other posts in the past you have your opinion set, i have mine. One thing is for sure, if you(and savage) actually believe 1080 is just about pest control you in a dreamland. 1080 is a industry, theres been so much BS said on it its a joke, its very political and its controled by the govnerment...not DOC, they the muppets that do as they told.
Pro 1080 supporters attack anti 1080 the same way as anti ones attack the pros.
You think im a joke...i think your heads in the sand and as much a joke as you think i am. Thousands support each view, but many Pro 1080 supporters are often involved in DOC , or have some invested interest somewhere and are bias to the bone. Nearly pointless trying to change anyones mind, as you either in one camp or the other,

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Firstly, I am not pro 1080.
I do though view it as a necessary evil for the control of predators and vectors. It requires constraints, but at this time it can't be replaced for critical broad acre use.
I understand both sides of the debate, and I attempt to remain objective.
I am not pro DOC. But I am pro the very hard working and dedicated field staff who are doing all they can with the current science to save our flora and fauna.
I am involved with DOC in the field to an adequate extent to allow me to make an objective appraisal of the their wins and losses.
And I do not believe in fairy tales. And yes, I do think that your grand conspiracy stories are a joke. But I don't think that you are a joke. I view you simply as a dedicated and passionate hunter.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Firstly, I am not pro 1080.
I do though view it as a necessary evil for the control of predators and vectors. It requires constraints, but at this time it can't be replaced for critical broad acre use.
I understand both sides of the debate, and I attempt to remain objective.
I am not pro DOC. But I am pro the very hard working and dedicated field staff who are doing all they can with the current science to save our flora and fauna.
I am involved with DOC in the field to an adequate extent to allow me to make an objective appraisal of the their wins and losses.
And I do not believe in fairy tales. And yes, I do think that your grand conspiracy stories are a joke. But I don't think that you are a joke. I view you simply as a dedicated and passionate hunter.

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Have you ever threatened your belief in DOC propaganda by watching the excellent DVD called " Poisoning Paradise"????? Yes/No????

If you do watch it ( you have to be brave & have taken a couple of tranquilisers!!):yaeh am not durnk: You MAY well change your friendly views on this super toxin insecticide????

I'd like to see a dissertation on here from you when you HAVE watched it, please. Note: It was NOT video taped in a studio.