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Talking of the major deer species available in NZ, what do you reckon the aprox size of the kill zones as a % is?
IE. Take the overall size of an average head, what % would virtually guarantee a clean kill. Same for Heart/lungs area.
Just to clarify. This is assuming a clear broadside shot is presented
I think Deer would have to be around 30%.
Cheers
Pete
In both cases Pete ?Head and Hilar
Depends a bit on what your 'clean kill' means. I have seen deer shot in the head, neck, heart [not all at once] that have travelled some distance and yet I have shot an animal in the stomach and she moved no more than 3 metres...sorry to say but I believe it has much to do with calibre and the charge behind it as to where the shot is placed.
Can't say about the headshot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
I personally never go for it as I believe it's way to risky.
I don't like seeing animals suffer when the shot is off by and inch or two.
Aiming at the boiler room with the intent to get the heart/lungs and breaking the off side shoulder is the shot I always go for.
This kill zone I would estimate at around 30% of the entire animal.
Cheers
Pete
I shot a goat up the ass and dropped it dead on the spot. Add that 1% to your total
TobyQuote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Where you purposefully checking out the Goats Arse?
If so hope it was at least a young nanny. ;)
Cheers
Pete
This is an interesting yet difficult question to answer. I would think that if you rule out the back half of the animal then the front legs below the brisket line, half of the head and the balance of the fleshy areas where a kill would not be instant then I would think the answer to be around 24 percent and I would make that up as 7 percent head and neck and 17 percent the Hilar. Of course I could be completely wrong.
Texas heart shot :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
I dont think I worded the original question very well.
What I meant is, if the head measures overall say, 350 mm x 160mm, what % of that area would you regard as kill zone . Same for Hilar.
I hear what you are saying Spook, and I agree 100% that there is no such thing as a guarenteed clean kill. This is pure wet Sunday curiosity.
@Toby. Now to be known as the "texas heart shot kid" ;)
Did you shoot it with your mutton gun...probably died from a broken neck from you pulling it around to kiss it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Haha! took longer then I thought for someone to say thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Spook
The Swaro app shows a Red Deer target as 5" for its ballistic calculator.
I would think a drop dead head shot would be into about 10% of head size...point of shoulder is only drop dead area of heart shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
Over 50% of the animal is kill zone. You can get all flowery with zones etc, but it's not that often the pretty shot presents itself. So you kill the fucker with a variation and get the bullet into where it matters..
Just amended that title for you Pengy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
More accurate description ;)
Cheers
Pete
"kill shot" is an interesting term.
to have instantaneous loss of consciousness one would need to destroy the brain.
instantly disabling, would need to be a CNS (central nervous system) shot, spinal cord and brain.
rapidly fatal, heart/lung and all of the above.
fatal, liver, arterial bleed, etc. it could be a shot hitting the jaw causing death from starvation/dehydration, intestinal damage, broken leg or wounds causing infection and then death.
so i suppose it would depend on what you regard as a suitable/ethical kill?
greg
Which is why I used the term Clean Kill in my op.
I would trust that the vast majority of hunters would hope to acheive a clean kill, regardless.
Certainly a shot into more than 50% of the deer's body will cause it to die, eventually, I think Pengy was after 'drop kill' shots. I think it depends on one's tracking skills as to whether a shot is taken...if you are fucken useless at tracking, then make sure animal is standing still and give it one in the head, neck or heart...if you are good at tracking, then give it one or more whether it is standing still or running...as they say "when there is lead in the air, there is hope"...its more about what a badly placed shot will do, than a well placed one...that's why I advocate calibre and the charge behind it...nothing worse for time wasting than searching for an animal your mate took a crack at, on the run, with a fuchen .22 of any description..."I think I got it"Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
I believe that when a deer takes a body "hit" it has the ability to shut off the blood that is in the brain at this very point and that is why they can run for considerable distances with a heart shot. I have personally shot a sika stag face on in the chest, it turned downhill and went for greater than 100 metres. When gutted, its heart had been completely blown off at the pipes and was lying in the bottom of the heart/lung cavity. I have seen a broken legged hind mercy killed on a deer farm with a heart shot that still allowed it to run greater than 200 metres.
a heart shot wont necessarily give you a drop kill, imho, a red deer is a soft animal, if you use the likes of a .308 or bigger, they tend to fold up and drop on the spot or within a few steps when hit with a heart shot. but the same shot with say a .243 giving less "shock" may have the same animal run some way before "piling up"
so i suppose that would add the complexity of what caliber vs body% is a kill zone?
i know of a lot of people who were happy to hit the "big bit" when killing animals, i would be happy to hit the cns where possible and heart/lung if i dont have any other choice.
so, percentage? broad side facing or head side on? i dont like the angles of a side on head shot....... facing hmmmmm 20% ???? so, side of head say 18%.
greg
Which is why I hate heart shots with a passion, take out the lungs, this slightly higher shot will often shock the spine and drop them on the spot while the heart pumps all their blood out threw the lungs.
yep, high shoulder is a winner. a little high hits the spine. a little low is the top of the heart and lungs. a little back is lungs a little forward is spine and artery's to the head. but blowing out the shoulder blades drops them no matter what.
greg
Apart from total misses I have had two experiences with head shots..one, was trying to end the life of a yearling I had shot the front leg off the day before with my STW. Found it running around in the creek bed, it stopped to look at me, so thinking on saving some meat I give it a head shot with the .375 winny...right between the eyes...failed, bullet went in low and blew the complete face off below the eyes...it stood there long enough throwing its head around to give me time to lever another round in and give it one in the motor room from head on.
The second was taking a head shot at a sika that was arse on with its head around its side watching me and doing the ventriloquist act with its sounds...missed the head, shot up its arse, through the intestines and the 7mm exploded and blew 50 holes through the sides contaminated with gut content...the piss off was I carried it for bloody miles to the hut only to find I may as well of only taken the back legs.
When I had my dog it didn't matter where I placed the shot...now-a-days I shoot into the motor and rely on my tracking skills.
Have you read this wee article, I have posted it before somewhere
More or less this guy needed a bang flop shot, it is more about bullet selection than anything
Interesting and worth a read
Page 1 of Bill's 1999 article, "The Ultimate Deer Hunting Cartridge"
Interesting when you look at the heaviest deer he's shot. We have plenty of hinds here well bigger than that.
Yea but you can get the idea of what he is on about - "you need more violent bullet performance"
I don't know much about bullets or shooting , but you see lots of people recommending Targex and Amax's etc
Bang- flop , that's what everyone is after isn't it?
That's why I use BT's.
Bang-flop is about placement of shotQuote:
Originally Posted by moonhunt
pengy -toby could also be noted as"Arse end Arnold".
must admit though i once did the same to a rabbit in mid hop.confused at first where i hit him till we opened him up.spine obliterated and boiler room looked like badly made undercooked raspberry jam!