https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/35...edium=referral
Hunters have an ongoing role of eradicating pest predators so that Kiwi can thrive.
Well done Capital Kiwi. Org
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https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/35...edium=referral
Hunters have an ongoing role of eradicating pest predators so that Kiwi can thrive.
Well done Capital Kiwi. Org
Past time for cat curfew.... Any moggy out past 20:00 becomes fair game.... Oh boy would that ruffle a few feathers. 99% of the time the one that allows us to live in her house is locked inside at night.very seldome we can't get her in and keep her inside by sundown.
So you could justify to yourself killing the neighbour’s kid’s pet cat Micky, just because they couldn’t manage to coax it inside by 20.00?
We have a semi tame stray cat living in our barn. She keeps the mice and rats away, and does a bloody good job of it, but won’t come near the house as we have two dogs. She is spayed so doesn’t add to the cat numbers in the area. So according to you we should kill her as we cannot lock her up?.
if its out in a reserve after dark..so actively hunting and it gets caught up in crossfire or trapped...its acceptable collateral damage yes.
the neighbours kids lost interest in the "pet" aspect about the time mum said they had to clean out the litter box and feed it themselves.
we have had a house cat most of my life..all been well fed but was eye opening just how far away from house they will go,I still recal shooting rabbit with .12ga a good 6-700 yards away from house and got hell of a shock when Ginger,our persian cross took off from nearby thistle patch...he was of course waiting on back lawn for me to deliver his rabbit when I returned to house.
if cockies can train cows and others can train dogs using collars to stay within a certain area and not cross a line..its entirely feasable to do same with cats....ifthe ystay within say 100mtrs of centre city house no issue..but once get past that collar gives tone,then vibrates then wee tickle then zap....clever as they are it would take very short time and they would stay home...shrink boundary as gets towards night and within VERY short space of time moggy is indoors and doesnt want to go out.
Hum, clearly the Karori enclosures aren't keeping the kiwi in. :D
A cat off its owner property should be deemed feral and fair game. As should roaming dogs.
roaming dogs ARE targeted by councils and if caught and locked up cost hard earned $$$ to get back out..if not claimed get put down.... so it is not a level playing field between cats n dogs at the momentQuote:
Originally Posted by Fee Knicks
Sorry @Snoppernator but you are cross pollinating the local kiwi projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoppernator
The Karori Sanctuary, now called Zealandia was NZ first fully fenced mainland predator free conservation project of its type. The fence is 8km long and keeps predators OUT and Kiwi IN! No problem there. Little Spotted Kiwi were translocation from Kapiti Island and release by the then Prime Minister Helen Clark and Iwi. They are thriving and NOT escaping.
The second project in Wellington is called Capital Kiwi and is completely separate from Zealandia. It's vision is to create an open predator free environment stretching from the south coast, Owhiro Bay, Red Rocks, Karori Light, Terawhiti Station to Titahi Bay in the north. The need of Kiwi released at Sheppards Gully on the southern coast is the larger Brown Kiwi, which is thought to be stronger and more likely to fight off predators. This Kiwi has traveled about 15km to get to Broadmeadows, and has 15 to go to get to Titahi Bay.
https://www.capitalkiwi.co.nz/
Sorry Micky but that last post of yours was just pure drivel.
It’s pretty hypocritical of you guys to criticise F&B’s stance on wild herbivores destroying native habitat but then be up in arms about cats killing native birds. I am not in any way defending F&B.
This is an interesting discussion that wont be solved anytime soon , but the tide is turning against cats being able to roam wherever and whenever they want.
I did some volunteer DOC-work on Great-Barrier years ago , we Live-caught cats to document how far they roamed and what areas , my 'colleague' didn't release-them as-instructed , but killed and gutted-them . They all contained highly-endangered lizards/gekhos , another occasion in the Central Nth-Island we put a tracking-device on the Moggy that lived in the Doc-accommodation , it traveled 4k into the forest which surprised a few . They are very-efficient Predators and definitely impact our Native species . We have five in our household , which is too-many I believe and we won't be replacing-them as they age and die . I personally would Ban them completely from our off-shore Islands . The largest wild-one I've seen was shot with a .243 in the Uraweras in the 70's , it was huge ( small-goat-size ), suggesting they are evolvingQuote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
Such a pity such a positive news article can decend so quickly in the SOS debate around cats.
It was the same hysteria when the Karori Wildlife Sanctuary (and every other Sanctuary is formed) "(Screaming) THEIR GOING TO KILL MY PUSSY!!!!" (Follwed by hysterical sobbing...) Get a grip!
The rules are simple, you can issue a Trespass Order on a dog, but not a cat.
Dogs must have collar, but not cats.
You can shoot maurading dogs AND you can shoot marauding cats (Pause........Wait for hysterical outburst.....)
The effects marauding cats have on native species in New Zealand is well documented in the NZ Geographic, as well as the Australian situation in the National Geographic, as well as multiple websites (DOC) and multiple news articles. A series of autopsy on feral cat showed the remains of 32 native species.
I once shot a domestic cat, in an area where I was authorized to hunt feral cats, which was 750 metres away from home.
People ask me, "How can you tell the difference between a feral cat and a domestic cat?" That’s easy, "Feral cats are the ones which are not wearing a reflective collar or a bell!" "My cat doesn't wear a collar!?" "Perhaps it should......"
The NZ Geographic article also discussed ways of containing domestic cats on its home property. Containment is expected and achievable for dogs, it should be the same rules for cats.
It is worth noting that the battle to contain feral cats to the east coast has been lost! Feral cats have now crossed the main devide into Fiordland.
The time has arrived for Wellingtonians to decide whether they want wild pussy or long legged kiwi chick's on their front lawns??? I personally prefer long legged kiwi chick's, there is too much scratching involved with wild pussy!
yep ..... and makes me even more bemused with this relatively recent enthusiasm that's emerged to carry out threatened species restoration projects in/adjacent to urban areas, or otherwise intensively managed rural ( e.g. farms/exotic forests) sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by sore head stoat
Been pretty well established I thought in places like Tongariro Forest that regular predator control operations ( yes, aerial 1080) will provide thriving bird populations. Then you get the species where they belong.... in (relatively) natural habitats. Can't help but think a heap of feelz has crept into stuff like this, as well.
Not something I can get my knickers in a twist about either way. As you say though, there is a choice to be made, pet cats or native fauna.
Straight back at yah @rewa that's a great, detailed and sobering report, thanks for putting a first hand experience into the otherwise emotive discussion.
As a by product of my rabbit culling business I send frozen rabbit pieces to Windy Hill Sanctuary on Great Barrier Island for catching feral cats. Their website says the have killed over 200 feral cats. I want youbtoo know that the good work which you and your mates were involved in, continues to this day. I'm very proud to be supporting Wild Hill Sanctuary ongoing environmental protection and suggest that other rabbit shooters could supply rabbit baits to other predator free conservation projects.
Last week I caught a massive male ferret by hanging a couple of whole, bloody rabbits inside an empty wire dog kennel with ring/circle of DOC200 traps under the rabbit. The ferret trigger three of them and got catch in two! Classic booby trap!
if we are to control cats it requires hard measures which will not be popular and in many towns likely ignored - all cats kept as pets neutered or sterilized - if allowed out a bell and dazzle collar -that way any cat out without a collar - fair game - if people want to get a cat then they get one from SPCA - no breeding allowed unless pedigree for shows as member of a cat club -- but as rewa alludes to they are well entrenched in our native - I have done survey trap lines way into Te Urewera Raukumara and cats and they are likely over what ?? 10-20 generations maybe more - we cannot afford to be precious - if we are to do something it needs to be effective
Ha Ha love ya method we had two dogs roaming down the far end of Lake Waikaremoana - I had info from an Aussie dog trapper and they used multiple traps in a circle around a bait - the traps were all camoflaged - that was the only way they could catch them - these two were shot on a deer carcass by a local hunterQuote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Shields
Great piece of news
By the way, @Hugh Shields - when you say
there is too much scratching involved with wild pussy!
All I can do is note that some guys love the drama..
Only problem with your theory is keeping a bloody collar on the cat. The only way my daughter has found so far is to use pretty wire-cored flower arranging stuff, wound tight enough to nearly top the cat. THAT was a fun job, rescuing that pissed off barstool and pinning him down long enough to unwind his new decoration... Daughter is ASD and just loves cats, and can't understand why the cute black and white furry lump that lets her live in it's house won't cooperate. His track record with cuddles and collars etc is shite to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Same comment, impossible to keep a collar on cats if they don't want it. 20km range for some cats too... Only real way to differentiate between domestic and feral is by behaviour. Cats are but one source of danger to birds, everything from wasps through to weasels and every letter in between the rest of the A - Z needs to be sorted too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
I agree with the fixing suggestion, but a collar just won't work. Also chipping is nearly a waste of time - running a 50% failure rate so far and the current cat is wearing a chip that won't scan. As far as birds, my windows have claimed more kills than the cat running an average 50 a year to the house and sheds or nearly one a week (that we find). Cars are worse too. People get precious about cats, but they are just one source of lethality. Waste of time blaming it all on cats without trying to solve the rest of the issues as well. Yeah cat kill ain't good, but humans are worse. Just saying...Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Collar, its simple the collar goes on not long after birth and the cat gets used to it.
Chipping, get a new chip.
Windows, yip they claim a few birds here also but I dont want to live in a cave and I guess you dont as well ? windows are needed.
Cars, yip they get a few but walking to the supermarket isnt an option for me and so a car is needed.
Is your cat needed ? or could you get by with a small dog that is registered, chipped properly, walked on a lead, not let out at night to roam where it wants, killing what it wants esp when it can get a feed at home ?
/Puts on my best Yes Minister voice/Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Well you see the councils cannot possibly do that with cats, as cat owners aren't required to pay an annual license fee.
Dogs are different to cats as they are a threat to humans. We've had a couple of fatal dog attacks up here recently. That doesn't diminish the threat of cats to native fauna, but I can see why the councils choose to prioritise dog control over cat control.
Hyper critical you say..... F&B also want cats contained.... Cats helping to destroy native birds.herbivours are destroying native plants...both species can exist if and only if numbers are kept in check so balance stays in favour of that that gets eaten..,.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
And last time I checked there aren't many pet deer roaming streets at night
No they don't. Some cats are happy to wear collars like some humans are happy to wear shackles I guess. Others (the majority in my experience) are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sore head stoat
Just coming out and saying "collar all cats" is about as possible as stating "everyone will buy an electric car in 2024 to replace their ICE". Just because you want it to happen and don't like ICE cars or cats, I have to be the one to break it to you you're sh1te outta luck. Also about as likely as keeping all cats inside, most of the cats around these parts DO NOT GO INSIDE EVER. They are bloody nice tame domestic cats, turn up for a scratch and a pat outside the house they just chose to not go inside at all and have their routines outside. A bit of realism about the animal is needed here I think, might as well start bleating about Rosalla's, Magpie's and Myna's and they damage they do to native bird numbers if you're going to bleat about cats. Everyone here is quick to bleat about F&B and them wanting to rid the country of deer, but F&B actually have a point and are quite correct under the law regarding the Wapiti herd - no legal basis to manage the herd under the current legal setup.
I'll add here for some people, their cats are needed and it's a vital thing for them. If it was their cat(s) or an unknown human dying, sorry human, I personally don't need or want a dog at this point in time, no intention to get one and small dogs just piss me off to be fair. In comparison cats are cleaner, quieter, no stupid high strung character flaws and I can't be arsed picking up dog crap. Plus, the current cat is up to something like several hundred rats, more mice, about 12 rabbits, two stoats and a few other pest species. Dogs are useless in that regard.
Well according to the SPCA ,remember they are very pro cat and probably were the ones that coined the phrase TNR [trap neuter return] after catching feral cats desexing them and releasing them again... "Cats are not bothered by collars"
That's something I thought I'd never see in my lifetime. Very cool.
I hope there's some proactive messaging going out to try and encourage dog owners to have their boundary fence kiwi proof to stop kiwi straying into the yard. That would be a big onus on dog owners but if those that can, do, then it's going to add to helping the cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Don't tell that to a Jack Russell.
This would be the same SPCA that called the cat my mother took from them 'bitey' and 'highly strung'. It would be neither, just your average tortie. The organisation is only as good as it's people and a lot of them are well meaning but f-all idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by sore head stoat
I can tell you that 97% of the cat's I've had are not bothered by collars - they get a collar put on them, they bugger off and turn up 20 minutes later sans-collar completely unperturbed. I have never found a shed collar out in the wild around my block either. Definitely not bothered by collars at all, just don't keep them on. (that's the capital full stop)
I just read that pamphlet - did that seriously come from the SPCA? What a load of sh1te. Utter bollocks... Family friends had a pedigree cat, expensive bastard. It was an inside cat, breeding grade and about 3K worth (can't remember the flavour to be honest though). A dog got into the house by jumping at a door and attacked the cat and killed it, the man of the house got inside while the attack was happening and the dog didn't leave either. Good bloody riddance I feel, I said to him well done mate but sorry for the loss of your cat. So that's one bit of advice in that little booklet that is total crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by sore head stoat
No but up here there are wild deer roaming the streets, 3 people just went to court over running one down and putting it on social media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Yes we have a cat he is 17 and fixed, doesn't wear a collar and is locked in Every night as we don't have a cat flap here. He is only ever allowed out if we are home as we leave a door open for him.
He is a support cat for my wife and she won't have a dog as unfortunately she has a very sensitive nose and lets face it dogs smell even I can smell them and we both like dogs.
In QLD cats have to be inside, As a result catios are popular. Most people follow the rules. The ones that don't, if their cat gets caught they get fined and the person who caught it gets part of the money. if it gets caught too many times it gets the long ride to the countryside. At least that is what my missus' friends who live there told us
no legal basis that may not be correct below from National Parks actQuote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Other activities in parks
(1)
The Minister may do, or authorise a person to do, any thing that the Minister considers appropriate for the proper and beneficial management, administration, and control of a park.
key word there is anything gunna be interesting
We will never own another cat, after our last one went from being a house cat to a runaway feral for 3 1/2 years. We got him back in pretty rough shape, even for a 12 year old. Mounting vet costs meant we had to put him down about a year ago.
If someone had killed him while he was a feral, I would have thought it was a fair play.
So great to see. The less cats in the environment the more native species we’ll see, that’s a simple fact that can’t be disputed. The number of people who claim their cats won’t kill any other than rats and mice astounds me.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests...ts/feral-cats/
Definite logic failure here - sorry: look up "False equivalency"Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3