Thread: Lead bullets and their risk to human health

On the way home from work today I listened to this podcast from "Our Chainging World" on RNZ:

Lead bullets and their risk to human health

Humanity has had a long and vexed relationship with the element lead. The problem is the stuff is terribly useful – and terribly toxic. Think Roman water pipes, lead paint, lead petrol. Now, new research is adding to a global body of work showing that there are more downsides to using lead in ammunition than we previously realised. Our Changing World’s Alison Ballance is in Nelson to find out more.

Woke ,PC feelgood bullshit being pushed by global wish for less small arms in civilian hands. If the ammunition is more expensive and harder to get.less people will buy it,afford it.if it kills less efficiently,more people will be put off using it and give up hunting. If it's deemed inhumain at killing,far easier to legislate it's banning. There you go,all the conspiracy wrapped up nicely. I shall continue to use lead ammunition for as long as possibly can do so.

The researchers are both hunters in NZ

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The researchers are both hunters in NZ

I listened to it on the way home too Beeman - it was pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Woke ,PC feelgood bullshit being pushed by global wish for less small arms in civilian hands. If the ammunition is more expensive and harder to get.less people will buy it,afford it.if it kills less efficiently,more people will be put off using it and give up hunting. If it's deemed inhumain at killing,far easier to legislate it's banning. There you go,all the conspiracy wrapped up nicely. I shall continue to use lead ammunition for as long as possibly can do so.

Not sure that's entirely fair - I know of a couple of lifetime smallbore shooters that have had to change their ideas due to very high lead levels in their testing (both blood and other testing). That was deemed to be purely exposure from indoor target shooting as I understand it - back in the day there was no dust control and the end of a decent shooting session the range was murky with dust haze. If we all went over to alternative ammo, the price would come down I expect due to volumes.

Originally Posted by No.3

Not sure that's entirely fair - I know of a couple of lifetime smallbore shooters that have had to change their ideas due to very high lead levels in their testing (both blood and other testing). That was deemed to be purely exposure from indoor target shooting as I understand it - back in the day there was no dust control and the end of a decent shooting session the range was murky with dust haze. If we all went over to alternative ammo, the price would come down I expect due to volumes.

Have you tried smallbore lead free?

Honestly cancer would be preferable to that.

Originally Posted by No.3

Not sure that's entirely fair - I know of a couple of lifetime smallbore shooters that have had to change their ideas due to very high lead levels in their testing (both blood and other testing). That was deemed to be purely exposure from indoor target shooting as I understand it - back in the day there was no dust control and the end of a decent shooting session the range was murky with dust haze. If we all went over to alternative ammo, the price would come down I expect due to volumes.

Slightly different scenario to hunting there. Indoor target shooting in a confined space somewhat different to shooting outdoors. The cynic in me says we have to be aware that everything we do these days seems to be hazardous to life.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Woke ,PC feelgood bullshit being pushed by global wish for less small arms in civilian hands. If the ammunition is more expensive and harder to get.less people will buy it,afford it.if it kills less efficiently,more people will be put off using it and give up hunting. If it's deemed inhumain at killing,far easier to legislate it's banning. There you go,all the conspiracy wrapped up nicely. I shall continue to use lead ammunition for as long as possibly can do so.

Let's not forget those warnings on cigarette packets too. Yet another example of 'the man' trying to stop hard working folks like me from having a good time.

It's interesting, the alternatives at this point aren't much better. Copper is a known carcinogenic for a lot of species for example (and not just when it's travelling at mach fuc). I think the main thing is to inspect the meat carefully, and if in doubt about a chunk (close proximity to a wound channel, obvious bruising or hydraulic damage) then err on the side of caution and discard...

Originally Posted by No.3

(close proximity to a wound channel, obvious bruising or hydraulic damage) then err on the side of caution and discard...

The podcast talks about fragments visible on x-ray 30cm from the wound channel, also about the lead tested lead content in minced meat where there was none visible with x-ray

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The podcast talks about fragments visible on x-ray 30cm from the wound channel, also about the lead tested lead content in minced meat where there was none visible with x-ray

Headshots rule.

We ate small game taken with a shotgun regularly when I was growing up. Used to stack the odd lead shot pellet on the side of the dinner plate. Maybe I have something else to blame all my otherwise age related health misfortunes on after all. Wonder if ACC will buy that one....?

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The podcast talks about fragments visible on x-ray 30cm from the wound channel, also about the lead tested lead content in minced meat where there was none visible with x-ray

I contributed minced deer and goat meat to one of these studies some time ago. Rib and shoulder meat mostly and the results supposedly showed low Pb levels, similar to control/background levels. I’m 63 years old and don’t spend too much time worrying about lead, within reason. Other shit to worry about. I’ve had a few things try to do me in over the years but apparently I’ve been a bad boy somewhere along the line. Supposedly “only the good die young”.

https://www.arphs.health.nz/assets/U...1-20181114.pdf

I did say conspiracy all wrapped up did I not??? Make up your own mind but do not get suckered into feel good marketing hype. Non lead ammunition is NOT as effective as it's cup n core brethren. Steel shotgun ammunition has come a long way in last 20 years but it still not as good as lead was....I happily use steel shot now but every single time I shoot lead over land I'm surprised again how much better it is... But maybe it's the lead poison eating what's left of brain cells.

When I was a Gunnery instructor, we had bloods taken annually and they were measured for all the nasty stuff including lead. Not once did I hear of or know about anyone whose blood exceeded the recommended exposure levels for lead or anything else. This was the 80's and 90's before the $$ restrictions really bit in. The exposure was frequent from 7.62 belt to 76mm QF and all sorts in between. On a average CVR(T) gunners course the round count for 76mm averaged 64 rounds (all natures) and up to 12 belts 4B/1T per student, most courses were 12 students maybe six courses a year. Then there were courses such as the MG initially 30cal then to 7.62 and .50 cal. The same risks were also in units as a part of the annual training activities, exercises supporting other units etc.

Exposure was from standing on the vehicle behind the turret as a safety supervisor, being in the turret commanding, loading 76mm, coax and doing the weapon drills stoppages etc. then cleaning the weapons typically daily for up to five days.

It turned out (early 90's) the greatest risk was inhalation of gases from all crew served weapon systems from firing and being in a semi-confined space, a lot of coin was spent trying to resolve that. Not aware of anyone who has become sick because of it, and I am not saying that there hasn't and that there is no risk. There are lots of ways you can be exposed. Simple hygiene like washing and changing your clothes after a range session does make a difference, especially washing your hands before ingesting food and drink goes a long way and we rigidly enforced that, and all range participants would wear overalls that could be easily swapped at the Q store. The MOH website does have some good guidance on lead exposure.

It is like there is a risk in everything we do, be aware of it and manage it appropriately.