Thread: Lead Contamination In Game Meat

Originally Posted by Average-Lad

Awesome to see someone do a scientifically backed experiment. I've had this question come up a few times and feel alot more informed now thanks!

One X-ray doth not an experiment make. Be careful of technology disguised as science.

@kotuku, I’m curious how many of these patients were off the older generation where they grew up in an environment in which they were exposed to lead on a regular basis. For example lead/copper water pipes, lead based paints eg. stripping and repainting furniture/ houses etc. Back a generation or two lead was everywhere and health & safety wasn’t even a phrase. Fair enough you got to see some grim effects on human health, lord knows we have enough health problems, but I think society these days is too wrapped up in cotton wool and paranoid about every potential health problem that they just don’t buckle down and just get on with life.

Originally Posted by woods223

@kotuku, I’m curious how many of these patients were off the older generation where they grew up in an environment in which they were exposed to lead on a regular basis. For example lead/copper water pipes, lead based paints eg. stripping and repainting furniture/ houses etc. Back a generation or two lead was everywhere and health & safety wasn’t even a phrase. Fair enough you got to see some grim effects on human health, lord knows we have enough health problems, but I think society these days is too wrapped up in cotton wool and paranoid about every potential health problem that they just don’t buckle down and just get on with life.

Lead based paint was certainly an issue. Toddlers are known for chewing stuff and cotts were often painted with lead paint. That's worst scenario.
Didn't know NZ had lead water pipe. USA did, so did Rome. Lol

Children are by far most at risk, that's one of the reasons they banned lead in pencils yonks ago.

Vapours, because of their size are most dangerous, hence lots of ventilation when casting. Especially if you do a lot of it.

But the consumption by an adult of a few #7 pellets every year will amount to zilch. Simply put its about the dose. Take a couple of panadol and it helps you, take a box it will fuk your liver. Lead isn't that much different. But 0 is best.
If your worried go to your Dr once a year and get a blood test. Our health is very important, but some of this stuff is drama queen territory.

Life is full of risks.

Originally Posted by woods223

@kotuku, I’m curious how many of these patients were off the older generation where they grew up in an environment in which they were exposed to lead on a regular basis. For example lead/copper water pipes, lead based paints eg. stripping and repainting furniture/ houses etc. Back a generation or two lead was everywhere and health & safety wasn’t even a phrase. Fair enough you got to see some grim effects on human health, lord knows we have enough health problems, but I think society these days is too wrapped up in cotton wool and paranoid about every potential health problem that they just don’t buckle down and just get on with life.

The lot -as i said I spent 50yrs at the mental health frontline.of course there were many like this but such was the lifestyle of that time ,it wasnt till later the causative links were established.The ability of social media to whip people into a frenzy of fear has a lot to do with it these days.

Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

One X-ray doth not an experiment make. Be careful of technology disguised as science.

100%. By no means take what we have done here as the be all and end all. Im hoping to shortly repeat the same process again, but have the whole carcass xrayd. The vet also suggested they could do another test next time that will be able to tell the difference between what is lead and what is copper. So that should be interesting.

Did I read recently that moves are afoot to ban use of lead for all game shot in the UK for resale or public consumption? Anyone able to clarify that?

Saw this article pop up on Rod n Rifle last year - https://rodandrifle.co.nz/articles/a...esearch-study/ Caught my eye as I sent 3 samples into Eric's study.

I am pretty cautious about keeping well away from the wound channels but even then they did get a low hit on one of my samples - still below the level of concern even though was using a 7mm RM with SST projectiles but surprised they found any given I am generally pretty careful. I will probably try copper projectiles when I run through my stash of lead but not going to stress about it for now, enough animals around to leave the odd quarter on the hill.

He did say that they were finding lead with the inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) at the Cawthron Institute that wasn't showing up on the xrays as it was too small.

He is apparently going to publish the results soon but summary advice was:

My recommendation from this work is that if you don’t know where the game meat came from, don’t eat it. Especially don’t feed game meat from unknown sources to kids. While you might be very careful not taking anything from the wound channel, someone else might not be as careful. If you want to use lead bullets and you make a good broadside shot, consider leaving the front quarters and just taking the back legs.

Originally Posted by Jake77

Saw this article pop up on Rod n Rifle last year - https://rodandrifle.co.nz/articles/a...esearch-study/ Caught my eye as I sent 3 samples into Eric's study.

I am pretty cautious about keeping well away from the wound channels but even then they did get a low hit on one of my samples - still below the level of concern even though was using a 7mm RM with SST projectiles but surprised they found any given I am generally pretty careful. I will probably try copper projectiles when I run through my stash of lead but not going to stress about it for now, enough animals around to leave the odd quarter on the hill.

He did say that they were finding lead with the inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) at the Cawthron Institute that wasn't showing up on the xrays as it was too small.

He is apparently going to publish the results soon but summary advice was:

My recommendation from this work is that if you don’t know where the game meat came from, don’t eat it. Especially don’t feed game meat from unknown sources to kids. While you might be very careful not taking anything from the wound channel, someone else might not be as careful. If you want to use lead bullets and you make a good broadside shot, consider leaving the front quarters and just taking the back legs.

I would imagine a sst projectile would have a much higher chance of spreading parts of projectile further throughout the body of the animal compared to the likes of an eldm/x or interloc/corelokt etc especially out of a 7rm if it was at close ish range (sub 200m sort of thing). not that im any sort of expert but from what ive read and seen using ssts myself, they tend to be pretty explosive when sent into animals at high velocity even at resonable distance. I have started using copper projectiles in a couple of my rifles with good results so far, only real problems being ive had to change the way i shoot things (meat saver shot behind the shoulder isnt really an option any more as they need to hit something solid to really get proper expansion going) and distance becomes a factor much more so than a conventional style of projectile. Barnes say 1800fps minimum for reliable expansion but alot of people say stay atleast 2000fps+ so it can hinder your effective shooting range quite drastically if your using a calibre that isnt a rocket ship to begin with.

Heading that way,but some Game Dealers keep pushing the date back. With most of Deer head and neck shot I can’t see the issue with lead bullets

Originally Posted by EmpireSafaris

Heading that way,but some Game Dealers keep pushing the date back. With most of Deer head and neck shot I can’t see the issue with lead bullets

I'd like someone to provide quality data that clearly shows that hunters are dieing of lead poisoning.

Bet I have a very long wait.
.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

I'd like someone to provide quality data that clearly shows that hunters are dieing of lead poisoning.

Bet I have a very long wait.
.

Made it to my mid 50's after eating rabbit/pheasant/partridge shot with lead probably twice a week from wo to 17 on the farm. That is without walking round for hours with half a dozen .22 air rifle slugs in my mouth ready to go for the next pest that needed annoying.

Have been accused of being somewhat grouchy at times by the wife but personally i think that is just her.

Will let you if anything changes.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Did I read recently that moves are afoot to ban use of lead for all game shot in the UK for resale or public consumption? Anyone able to clarify that?

Hi @Jhon not really. Some game dealers are moving that way. But at present the game dealers around me are taking no deer. There full up. Mine can take 800 carcasses. He’s not taking anymore for the next 2 weeks as everyone scrambles to finish there roe doe cull before the end of the season.
The fact is that there is just not enough copper projectiles on the market to fill the hole.

If they ban lead now deer numbers will just go nuts. It’s bad enough as it is. We have quite the problem.

They are moving away from lead but when it comes who knows.

Short answer there is no date set.

This is the main reason I only hunt using monolithic copper bullets. Having the family consuming lead is the last thing I want and am worried about.

I even get to the stage where only buying my hunting rifles solely depends on how easy to find monolithic copper ammunition in the NZ market. 80% of my ammo safes are monolithic just keeping stock to prevent running out.

Hope for more lead-free ammunition choices in the future NZ market.

Error. Deleted post.

Be really careful what you wish for.
It is everyone personal decision on what projectiles they want to shoot and what meat they want to eat and feed their family with.I get that.
But understand that the reason to ban lead in projectiles is not only scientific but also another way to go after hunters and gun owners.

Because once a law is introduced to ban copper jacket with lead chore projectiles for hunting in a country, the next step will be to ban the target projectiles.
On the medium to long term that could turn into the closing of your favourite hornady or nosler plant.
And imagine if all lead core projectiles sold in the world where replaced by copper only projectiles, well you would be paying a lot more for them, since Elon Musk and his buddies needs also copper for their production. And it becomes harder and more expensive to extract.

And of all the hunting people that I have known who died in the last decade, and where eating regular game meat and waterfowl, none have died of lead poisoning or seemed to have been affected by lead during the course of their life.
Sugar, fat and high cholesterol were the predominant factors.