Match bullets for hunting deer

This seems to be a topic that is difficult to navigate, with all sorts of opinions;

1. No, they only shoot paper.
2. Depends, some companies can't sell them as game bullets so have to call them match bullets.
3. Depends, what is the bullet.
4. Sure, my Pappy has been using them for 40 years and has shot a bazillion deer and they all died upon bullet impact.

Choose your number and there is information out there to suit that narrative.

What I thought I might ask is if there is anyone who uses match bullets for hunting deer and if anyone does, what are the terminal results?

I am particularly interested in the Sierra TMK (I have 95gr 6mm), because I have some and it would be nice to hunt with them. I am also open to any first hand experience saying they do not work.

What about HPBT, apparently they are not all created equal, does anyone use the Hornady #3039?

Or does anyone have any first hand accounts just in general to help guide people?

I use eldm in both .223 and .308 in my work guns and highly rate them

It's not that complicated - heavy-for-calibre ELDMs and TMKs work really well for killing stuff. HPBT match bullets are inconsistent. That's it.

If you’re slinging ELDMs at light speed you may have a blow up at close range but personally I’ve never seen it. They have a very thin jacket. Out at long range with lower impact speeds they perform exceptionally well.

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Originally Posted by gimp

It's not that complicated - heavy-for-calibre ELDMs and TMKs work really well for killing stuff. HPBT match bullets are inconsistent. That's it.

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Hmm so what about the Targex projectiles? they seem to do very well across the board on deer sized targets? The targex is widely used in the target shooting and benchrest disciplines.

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Hmm so what about the Targex projectiles? they seem to do very well across the board on deer sized targets? The targex is widely used in the target shooting and benchrest disciplines.

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I've been running 69gr hollow point rebated boat tail projs in the 223 for about a year now. They shoot well and are very expansive down range. Thats on goats and fallow deer.

If you hit somewhere absolutely vital and penetrate deep enough you'll drop deer with .22LR. If you do it with a match bullet it will still do it too.

Where it gets flaky is if you hit something on the way to the deer that you didnt see that starts the bullet upsetting or expanding - match bullets can do weird and unexpected things. It's a bit like FMJ, can hit bone and depart at 90deg to where it hit and take out the back steaks and scotch fillets on the way through the arsehole - ask me how I know this haha (seen it first hand, took out one of the shoulders, the backsteaks and scotch fillets and destroyed the spine, and stuffed the arsehole and the top of both rumps on the way out and a bloody nice condition yearling reduced to dog tucker basically).

It's probably better to use a hunting bullet, if you have one weird event you start second guessing yourself and that's bad...

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Hmm so what about the Targex projectiles? they seem to do very well across the board on deer sized targets? The targex is widely used in the target shooting and benchrest disciplines.

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3. Depends, what is the bullet.

On HPBT bullets, the hollow point part isn't necessarily a design feature that's there to promote expansion, it's an artifact from the way the jackets are drawn up around the core during manufacturing. They can be as small as a pinprick so it's hardly a gaping "hollow point" like you'd think of in pistol rounds.

On *hunting* HPBT's, the jacket is thin enough to be fragile, or the tip will have a cavity underneath it... or some other design tweak meant to better ensure you get some expansion.

It's not a consideration on bullets like the SMK and so they might not have it. Look at 30cal - Sierra do a 175gr Match King and then a 175gr Game King - they have identical outside geometry - the differences are on the inside.

When an SMK expands, good chance it will work much like any other ELD or TMK. But there is a higher chance that it won't work. The polymer tips over the large hollow points on the ELD's and TMK's basically guarantee they will do something useful.

The only projectiles I use for anything are tipped match projectiles. ELD-M or TMK, end of story

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Hmm so what about the Targex projectiles? they seem to do very well across the board on deer sized targets? The targex is widely used in the target shooting and benchrest disciplines.

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The guy who makes them is smart (Bryn). Consistent target jackets (Berger), hand pressed for precision, core formulated for reliable hunting performance.
They are a NZ product we can be very proud of.

The last ten deer I shot with a 308 168 gr smk all ended up in my freezer . But yes an sst or a more basic soft point would work as well or a bit better in some cases.

I've used the 155gr Scenar for many years on Sika and Fallow. I've never had a problem with them, they flat out kill, a decisive deer killing device. They almost all pass through, with a reasonably bulky retention found on a recovered bullet from a Sika hind shot in the butt,taking out the pelvis,a back steak, lungs and heart. There is a mountain of discussion online about this target projectile and it's excellence in hunting deer and other large game.

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Hmm so what about the Targex projectiles? they seem to do very well across the board on deer sized targets? The targex is widely used in the target shooting and benchrest disciplines.

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Within the group of "HPBT Match bullets" that is overall inconsistent, the Targex do work well in my experience

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Originally Posted by No.3

If you hit somewhere absolutely vital and penetrate deep enough you'll drop deer with .22LR. If you do it with a match bullet it will still do it too.

Where it gets flaky is if you hit something on the way to the deer that you didnt see that starts the bullet upsetting or expanding - match bullets can do weird and unexpected things. It's a bit like FMJ, can hit bone and depart at 90deg to where it hit and take out the back steaks and scotch fillets on the way through the arsehole - ask me how I know this haha (seen it first hand, took out one of the shoulders, the backsteaks and scotch fillets and destroyed the spine, and stuffed the arsehole and the top of both rumps on the way out and a bloody nice condition yearling reduced to dog tucker basically).

It's probably better to use a hunting bullet, if you have one weird event you start second guessing yourself and that's bad...

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ELDMs work consistently.

Many "hunting" bullets work poorly. Any non-lead hunting bullet, more or less, works much worse than an ELDM. Just because it says "hunting" on the box doesn't mean it works well. Even the ones that work relatively well, like Makers and Etips - have a smaller functional impact V window, and don't work as well inside it CF an ELDM

Hitting intermediate barriers between you and the target animal produces inconsistent results with any bullet.

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Originally Posted by gimp

Within the group of "HPBT Match bullets" that is overall inconsistent, the Targex do work well in my experience

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Yep Fair call. The interesting thing is that the common denominator which relates to poor performance of the HPBT bullet is not the actual hollow point. We have Targex and Berger bullets with a hollow point design working very well on game, then we have the ELDM's and TMKS which are not hollow point but are primarily designed as a "Match " bullet. So we can safely say that construction and/or match specific design with regard to poor performance do not somehow appear to be consistent across all bullets.

Yes you can't just make statements about "match bullets" as a whole.


Poly tipped match bullets seem to work really well as a group


HPBT match bullets seem to work inconsistently as a group, but individual bullets have different characteristics

SMK don't work well
Bergers work well sometimes, poorly other times
Targex work well
Hornady BTHP seem to work inconsistently
Barnes match burners?
Nosler CC or RDF ?
Scenars?

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Originally Posted by gimp

Yes you can't just make statements about "match bullets" as a whole.


Poly tipped match bullets seem to work really well as a group


HPBT match bullets seem to work inconsistently as a group, but individual bullets have different characteristics

SMK don't work well
Bergers work well sometimes, poorly other times
Targex work well
Hornady BTHP seem to work inconsistently
Barnes match burners?
Nosler CC or RDF ?
Scenars?

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If we are starting a list;

TMK by all accounts work well.

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Originally Posted by inglishill

If we are starting a list;

TMK by all accounts work well.

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They're part of the group of "poly tipped match bullets"

haven't had a problem with Bergers yet

Another sleeper is the Norma 130 grain VLD target bullet - it made some of the most severe damage I've ever seen. Back when they were $0.40 each I shot a heap of them, but now at $1.30 or so each they are competing with the other good killing bullets.

+1 on the Scenars, I've seen them in .30 and 6.5 doing the business.

I've used
162gr amax and eld-m along with 169tmk in my 7mm08, 7mmcreed and 7mmRM with good results.
107gr smk in my 6XC
230gr berger hybrids and 230gr Atips in my 300PRC.
All have taken game past 500meters and inside 100 without any issues

I open a little bit the hollow point of the tip of my smk with a dremel pointy milling bit. I can say if it really improves things but it helps psychologically

I have used 6.5mm 139gr Scenar bullets modified according to Nathan Foster's instructions [https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...a+Scenar.html].
Goats fell over at 280m OK.

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Originally Posted by wazza56

haven't had a problem with Bergers yet

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Same, both near and far, or with ELD-m for that matter.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....huntinf-98161/

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Originally Posted by gimp

Yes you can't just make statements about "match bullets" as a whole.


Poly tipped match bullets seem to work really well as a group


HPBT match bullets seem to work inconsistently as a group, but individual bullets have different characteristics

SMK don't work well
Bergers work well sometimes, poorly other times
Targex work well
Hornady BTHP seem to work inconsistently
Barnes match burners?
Nosler CC or RDF ?
Scenars?

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Lapua Scenar had a big following on the US forums for a while, look up ScenarShooter (Pat Sinclair) on 24hr Campfire, plenty of bears shot with that bullet.

However I believe Lapua have changed the design on Scenars in recent years (and price!)

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....huntinf-98161/

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Excellent! Thank you.

During the meat era (70's/80's) my go-to projectile for my first .223 was the 52 grn Sierra Match. They worked very well. They had a very hard base that you would sometimes find with a smidge of lead attached.
I wasn't the only one using them, they were quite popular with hunters who were hand loading the 222/223. You can still get them

The term ‘AMAXed’l, I believe, was invented on this forum.

Those of us who use them can attest to their performance on game.

I’ve got an unopened box of ELDMs, I assume they’ll be as good, only the tips won’t melt. :-)

I’m using eldm in a 22/250ai, 6.5 Grendel and two 6.5/06ai rifles. Kill deer from 20m to 750m. Never had any issues with them. The 147’s usually lung shots are DRT from my 06/ai’s even at 600m no tracking needed. 22/250ai out to 250m dropped two hinds on the spot couple nights back. Now in contrast the Berger hunting bullets I used to use and my brother still uses all give a nice exit hole and make deer easy to track with the blood trail. They all move off the spot they were shot with lung shots, all are dead but I prefer not to track animals if that is an option.

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Originally Posted by caberslash

Lapua Scenar had a big following on the US forums for a while, look up ScenarShooter (Pat Sinclair) on 24hr Campfire, plenty of bears shot with that bullet.

However I believe Lapua have changed the design on Scenars in recent years (and price!)

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The older Scenar projectiles and the latest iteration, the L's are the same form, the L's were being produced on a new line and being held to tighter tolerances all round. l believe all are L's now and the old line is redundant. 30 cal at least.

Couple SMK's, 7mm 175gr MV2650fps
Left was large Red hind, 500yds double lung, exited and found in dirt behind her.
Right was large bodied Red stag, roared into 16yds, front on center chest, projectile found lodged in right pelvis.
Only prep I do for SMK's or Berger hybrids is run a needle drill into nose cavity to ensure its open.
Attachment 268474

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Originally Posted by wsm junkie

Couple SMK's, 7mm 175gr MV2650fps
Left was large Red hind, 500yds double lung, exited and found in dirt behind her.
Right was large bodied Red stag, roared into 16yds, front on center chest, projectile found lodged in right pelvis.
Only prep I do for SMK's or Berger hybrids is run a needle drill into nose cavity to ensure its open.
Attachment 268474

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Seems the old drill trick is a good one.

Gotta say... this conversation is a bit late to the game. Shooting game with match bullets is old news.
Best thing you can do is load up some heavy for caliber match projectiles and rip into it

Guess not everyone has as much knowledge as you on this subject.

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Originally Posted by Fat ninja

Guess not everyone has as much knowledge as you on this subject.

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I know I didn't. To be fair I didn't search to hard on the forums.......