Mathias/wilberforce

Gday lads

Been a lot of places around Canterbury but have yet to venture up the wilberforce or Mathias.

Rivers pending, I'm thinking of going up this or next weekend as a pre hard antler mission to scout for when the stags are stripping.

Wilberforce first, is access across glenthorne station the best bet and is it viable? I have a 4wd but not one that I'm willing to river crawl in but do have a xr200 I'm fairly capable on, will this be of use to get closer to doc hunting land and avoid what appears to be a very boring looking walk?

Feel free to PM, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Given the fact that there have been some shitty big floods, I'd say any tracks at the beginning of the Wilber will be washed out. Both the Wilber & more so the Mathias require a fair bit of 4wd driving. Mathias requires you to cross the main Rakaia and get around the bottom of Manuka Point.

I have been up as far as Gifford stream which is pretty much as far as you can get in a truck, but definitely needed a pretty serious 4wd to do it, back when I had my kzj78,
I also wouldn't attempt that trip alone, we did it in a convoy of 3.
The Wilberforce riverbed can be quite bumpy with lots of boulders certainly want a bit of clearance and crossing the main flow would be near impossible on a trail bike most of the time.

Unless something miraculous happens, I doubt you will get up either this weekend. Both the Rakaia and the Wilberforce are still high and filthy, with another lot of rain predicted this weekend.

Yeah the Rakaia was at 590 cumecs earlier... crossable at Manuka point at maybe 150 and less in a decent truck. Taken my LN106 up to Unknown Hut up the Wilberforce and to (and beyond) Mathias hut. Big rivers big rocks big country lots of scrub. Big piles of gut bags up the Mathias last time

Yep well aware of canterbury rivers so obviously all caution taken. So I dont have a 4wd I'm willing to risk any damage or river work (new landcruiser that work owns) so am I limited to walking from glenthorne for the wilberforce? If so, will probably give it a miss

Depending on where the channels are you might be able to get up to Bristed stream or so without any bigger water crossings, if the side streams are low. It's still pretty rough even down there though, I don't think it would be a lot of fun on a bike

They also 1080ed the wilberforce last year. As gimp said, vehicle access is very dependent on where the river braids are if you dont want to cross (which is smart, it’s a big river), after the rain all bets are off...

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Originally Posted by gimp

Depending on where the channels are you might be able to get up to Bristed stream or so without any bigger water crossings, if the side streams are low. It's still pretty rough even down there though, I don't think it would be a lot of fun on a bike

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The gravel fan at Boundary Stream was the roughest last time we were up there. Long way to walk from there to anywhere really

access thru glenthorne not allowed. Had to drive round the top of the canal on to riverbed and follow what tracks there were on True left, until boundary stream then up through that on to farm track heading up river as far as you can.

After that you're on your own.

But as has been said most of the river will have changed a lot now and big risks getting stuck, drowned or washed away.

I paid to stay on Glenthorne and they still wouldn't let us use their farm track to access doc land. Very disappointing attitude.

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Originally Posted by Strummer

I paid to stay on Glenthorne and they still wouldn't let us use their farm track to access doc land. Very disappointing attitude.

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Glenthorne is owned by a foreigner, they don't know how the back country used to be to us kiwis. There is the issue of liability if you use their access ways and often this is the reason for refusal.

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Originally Posted by Strummer

I paid to stay on Glenthorne and they still wouldn't let us use their farm track to access doc land. Very disappointing attitude.

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If that was Fang Hill hut it's an absolute dump, I wouldn't pay to stay there

This is me crossing the main flow below britstead stream that truck had 4" of lift and 33" tires doesn't look that deep but it's fast and deep enough in places also you can see how nuggety the boulders are on the river bed and that area wasn't the worst either

https://youtu.be/LIJLDcU3AY8

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Originally Posted by dannyb

If that was Fang Hill hut it's an absolute dump, I wouldn't pay to stay there

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Nah this was an actual house for rent on the farm

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Originally Posted by Mathias

Glenthorne is owned by a foreigner, they don't know how the back country used to be to us kiwis. There is the issue of liability if you use their access ways and often this is the reason for refusal.

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Agreed. Although the liability thing is often a bit of a cop out, and an excuse to turn people down. Good to see work safe give clarification earlier this year:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/11324...reational-risk

In my experience of hunting up there, if the main rivers are high, the side creeks are pumping as well.
Id give it a week at least, depending on what Nor west we get over the next few days

cool video, freakin massive valley them ones ay

Crossing the Rakaia heading in to Manuka Point got me a snorkel after that trip was really touch and go on the way back out :(

No way we were crossing at Totara Point the river was blasting through, even an other group with more serious looking trucks stopped there too.

We just made it out with some very experienced guys, I kept adding up in my head the cost of the gear I had and would lose if my truck got stuck and started rolling down the river.

That's what happens when the locals say shell be right and plan things months in advance all keen to get in and make the most of time off work and leave granted by the missus.

Respect the rivers.

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Originally Posted by xtightg

Crossing the Rakaia heading in to Manuka Point got me a snorkel after that trip was really touch and go on the way back out :(

No way we were crossing at Totara Point the river was blasting through, even an other group with more serious looking trucks stopped there too.

We just made it out with some very experienced guys, I kept adding up in my head the cost of the gear I had and would lose if my truck got stuck and started rolling down the river.

That's what happens when the locals say shell be right and plan things months in advance all keen to get in and make the most of time off work and leave granted by the missus.

Respect the rivers.

Attachment 125979

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absolutely a river not to be taken lightly it comes up fast too

Over seas owner isn't the problem.He believes in keeping access for people. Knew someone who worked there until recently. Managers wife is apparently a piece of work. High staff turn over and even had police to get ski field unlocked! Not a people person. Manager himself is ok if you can just get past the wife.

Had a mate abused by the wife that he hadn’t paid for the hut they used several months later, even though he paid the day they got back to town.

Sad to say I've heard similar stories

Only cross the Rakaia under a 100cu /secs=several streams to cross and when the west coast hasn't had rain for 3 days befor and unlikely to have rain 2 days after you left the area.Then you know the river not going to ambush you with high water.

https://youtu.be/t0RD7NVAuDk

i bloody love a good internet gossip session! everyone has a mate who has a mate that has had a bad experience. im not disputing any of those experiences, although as there are no first hand accounts here, ill offer one. ive never met the overseas owner, but have heard good things about him. i do know the manager and his wife personally, and have only ever known them to be very outgoing, friendly, and hospitable. sometimes relationships and/or communication breaks down between good people, and sometimes one or both parties are just genuine assholes. my humble, firsthand opinion is that they are not assholes, which leaves one of the other two options.

also, bear in mind they are in the business of running a farm, which happens to have a huge amount of recreation access (fishing, hunting, 4WD, trampers, te araroa walkers, several huts etc etc). thats a huge volunteer workload so people such as yourselves can enjoy the back country. when someone drowns their truck, or doesn't come back before the rain comes, or needs a ride down the valley they are always the ones to clean up the mess. so, if you are in the unfortunate position to have access denied, consider those cockups that have gone before you and have the humility to realise that maybe it's for your own good. or maybe they are bulldozing the track up the river (freshly done this year). or maybe they are lambing. or maybe there are other reasons that they can't be bothered to explain. or maybe you just caught them on a bad day.

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Originally Posted by Trout

Only cross the Rakaia under a 100cu /secs=several streams to cross and when the west coast hasn't had rain for 3 days befor and unlikely to have rain 2 days after you left the area.Then you know the river not going to ambush you with high water.

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You only want to cross in the middle of winter then....:D

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Originally Posted by xtightg

Crossing the Rakaia heading in to Manuka Point got me a snorkel after that trip was really touch and go on the way back out :(

No way we were crossing at Totara Point the river was blasting through, even an other group with more serious looking trucks stopped there too.

We just made it out with some very experienced guys, I kept adding up in my head the cost of the gear I had and would lose if my truck got stuck and started rolling down the river.

That's what happens when the locals say shell be right and plan things months in advance all keen to get in and make the most of time off work and leave granted by the missus.

Respect the rivers.

Attachment 125979

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This picture depicts a typical depth of a Canterbury high country river crossing, be it the Rakaia, Mathias, Wilberforce or any of the Rangitata tributaries. Only go on the trip with suitably equipped 4wd and at least one other vehicle. I speak from experience and have only got stuck once, through fault of my own and needed pulling out. I've crossed some of those rivers more times than I can remember.

I've had the luxury of following the bulldozer making a new track for me up the Wilber once, was a real laugh when he backed out of one crossing when the water was nearly up to the high drive on the D8H :D

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Originally Posted by bang

i bloody love a good internet gossip session! everyone has a mate who has a mate that has had a bad experience. im not disputing any of those experiences, although as there are no first hand accounts here, ill offer one. ive never met the overseas owner, but have heard good things about him. i do know the manager and his wife personally, and have only ever known them to be very outgoing, friendly, and hospitable. sometimes relationships and/or communication breaks down between good people, and sometimes one or both parties are just genuine assholes. my humble, firsthand opinion is that they are not assholes, which leaves one of the other two options.

also, bear in mind they are in the business of running a farm, which happens to have a huge amount of recreation access (fishing, hunting, 4WD, trampers, te araroa walkers, several huts etc etc). thats a huge volunteer workload so people such as yourselves can enjoy the back country. when someone drowns their truck, or doesn't come back before the rain comes, or needs a ride down the valley they are always the ones to clean up the mess. so, if you are in the unfortunate position to have access denied, consider those cockups that have gone before you and have the humility to realise that maybe it's for your own good. or maybe they are bulldozing the track up the river (freshly done this year). or maybe they are lambing. or maybe there are other reasons that they can't be bothered to explain. or maybe you just caught them on a bad day.

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Not saying it is the case with this property, but I do know of instances where fictitious 'lambing' ( only wethers are present in closed blocks ) access / crossing closures coincide with the opening of the High Country fishing season and then in Autumn there is a second extended 'closure' (for mustering) coinciding with the start of the Roar. Both 'closures' denying access by the public to publicly owned DOC administered crown lands. Yet during these access closure periods fee paying fishing and hunting guides have access with their clients across private land to the DOC estate, effectively capturing crown land for private hire during these periods. I have even seen an instance of a property not content with the 'closures' described above going further and breaking the law by padlocking a gate across an 'unformed public road' which provides an access corridor to the Public Estate. A letter describing the offence to the local Council bringing the desired result.

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Not saying it is the case with this property, but I do know of instances where fictitious 'lambing' ( only wethers are present in closed blocks ) access / crossing closures coincide with the opening of the High Country fishing season and then in Autumn there is a second extended 'closure' (for mustering) coinciding with the start of the Roar. Both 'closures' denying access by the public to publicly owned DOC administered crown lands. Yet during these access closure periods fee paying fishing and hunting guides have access with their clients across private land to the DOC estate, effectively capturing crown land for private hire during these periods. I have even seen an instance of a property not content with the 'closures' described above going further and breaking the law by padlocking a gate across an 'unformed public road' which provides an access corridor to the Public Estate. A letter describing the offence to the local Council bringing the desired result.

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The aforementioned property actually relocated a gate across the public road, and moved the track after the gate by the upper homestead, and replanted the area so that no public access was possible. Even though 25m past, its a paper road all the way to Fanghill hut.
So only access is around the riverbed on the dozer track to boundary stream. Matter was reported to the council and nothing done about it as the manager had "arranged alternative access through the river", when in fact the alternative was useless if the river could not be crossed.

As mentioned, the first roar after new owners, there was actually fencing extending into the riverbed with "do not cross - mustering" signs on it. Since this is public land, photos were taken and it was reported. Now they continue to put them up but have a removable electric tape for vehicles to cross on the riverbed.

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Yep, this 'property' (let's say... it rhymes with Hen Fawn) has a history of illegally putting locked gates over public accessways. The local council has had to intervene more than once to tell them to pull their heads in.

was that to stop people releasing invasive fish species? or to stop campers leaving their rubbish, shitting everywhere and lighting fires in the middle of summer? ive heard some of those stories too - evidently from the other side of the fence. how many requests to the local council did it take for those toilets to be finally built? or was it doc? the details are a bit hazy for me. and if we're thinking of the same events, they are not related to wilberforce access.
sometimes the big bad landowners arent out to get people out of spite, they're just fed with shitheads. and i fail to see the issue with stopping unlimited shitheads (interspersed with the odd non-shithead of course) driving through your best developed finishing country, past both homesteads, workers accommodation, up the nicely maintained tracks etc, when there is perfectly good alternative access? on a good weekend there can upwards of 10 trucks up the river, doesnt seem to be an issue for them?

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Originally Posted by bang

was that to stop people releasing invasive fish species? or to stop campers leaving their rubbish, shitting everywhere and lighting fires in the middle of summer? ive heard some of those stories too - evidently from the other side of the fence. how many requests to the local council did it take for those toilets to be finally built? or was it doc? the details are a bit hazy for me. and if we're thinking of the same events, they are not related to wilberforce access.
sometimes the big bad landowners arent out to get people out of spite, they're just fed with shitheads. and i fail to see the issue with stopping unlimited shitheads (interspersed with the odd non-shithead of course) driving through your best developed finishing country, past both homesteads, workers accommodation, up the nicely maintained tracks etc, when there is perfectly good alternative access? on a good weekend there can upwards of 10 trucks up the river, doesnt seem to be an issue for them?

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I agree with this. And never have found heading around the bottom via the river an issue pretty straight foward really and if you pick an alright crossing the river is ok given no serious rain