Missed stag

I missed an opportunity at a nice stag today. It made me question my self imposed 250m max limit (point and shoot) I saw this guy at 500m, and managed to get into 380m before he meandered back into the bush. He was a big animal with a very large and symmetrical rack. He was conservatively at least 10points, but I think more. (If I don’t get him he’s always more!)
I had a near perfect shooting position, but my 1.5-5 Zeiss Duralyt was lacking. With practice I could probably dial to that range, but thinking I want something more straight forward. Something along the lines of a Leupold with CDS, though I do love this scope! Possibly thinking I could get a custom dial made up for the scope, and that might do it, but the 5x out to 400m is pushing it to get the bullet where I want it to go.

The rifle is a rem 788 in .308 with an 18” barrel. It likes federal blue box 150gb and puts them well under moa.
I am aware that .308 is not the best longer range round, but should be good to 400m?
I obviously would need to put some decent range time in at that range before making a shot on an animal.

Appreciate your thoughts :)

Zoom in to find the beasty in question :)

Attachment 255110

308 is capable get a scope that will do the job and practice yes you will be limited with 5x at 4-500 metres - I have the exact same rifle - damn accurate thats why its nearly always the first out of the safe for a hunt

No problem for a 308,practice with a new scope at 12x-16x.Yep he was hard to find in the photo.But now you found him amongst all that feed,he wont be going any where.

Your story resonates with me a lot. I was always a short distance shooter <250m. A lot was to do with choice of scope and shooting confidence. My cousin got me interested in looking at Swaro Z5’s with dial up system. ( these are 3.5 to 18 power)This has revolutionized my shooting and what I’m comfortable shooting out to.
I now feel 400 to 450m with the right conditions is really doable and have proven over the last 3 or 4 years that I can consistently be successful at longer ranges. Shot my PB red stag this roar at 400m using Z5 Dial up on a 25 06 rifle.
You won’t regret a decent dial up, well magnified scope. The trick is getting confident using it.

Once you acquire a dial up scope, your set up might be fine, or might not. A target at 400 or 500 yds will tell you pretty quickly.
If your rifle is not bedded, maybe a small bedding job might help to tighten groups a bit. The federal blue box is good, have used a lot of them, but when you want to stretch the distance, see if you can get a more aerodynamic bullet that your rifle will still like, like a hornady sst or sierra bullet in the 150 to 165/ 168 grain range. Of course a range finder is essential as well for those longer distance shoots.

From the pic, hes a pretty decent stag alright, good thing is, hes still there. So you will have plenty of opportunity to go back and see if you can get him. A quality dial scope would certainly have made taking him a whole lot more possible. I prefer lower powered scopes and have shot a long ways out there on 3X, but never at an animal. Quality glass, Kahles, Swaro, VX5 or 6 will always make things so much better rather than just a big zoom range.
But, quality glass is only as good as the nut behind the butt, shooting out further requires lots of practice. And familiarity with your gear. Good wind calls are essential. I would suggest coming along to the Hunters Challenge and trying a few different scopes in realistic conditions.

With the appropriate scope shooting to 400m is a doddle...when the wind is dead calm. Throw in some wind and then you'll wish you practiced alot more.
Make sure your practice is in the wind using your hunting setup and preferably shooting across a gully or steep terrain.
Practice in easy Rifle range conditions is good for gear setup but will over-inflate your perceived ability.

Hes a good stag alright.prob a good decision to not take the shot with the .308 shooting rainbows at that range if your not experienced with the longer shots,if ya wounded him imagine the downer you'd be on.Hopefully you get back in there and have an update for us all soon.

on closer inspection he is a really good stag!

Once you've found yr dial up moa for 400yds =7-8moa?.A cardboard box with no wind would be easy to hit with practice.I use 308 Hornady Hiperformace 165 gr ssts for distance.Got plenty of energy out to 500yds on big deer.

Go and shoot some wallabies with current set up. You have much younger eyes than me but a stag is a big animal,five power is enough to place chair on backbone or just above to allow projectile to drop through shoulders. Wallaby shooting will give you confidence you can do it cleanly. Or to put it another way.had we been using .308 with five power scope yesterday instead of .223 with light projectiles and 9x our kill rate would've been much higher.

I disagree a bit with @Micky Duck. A higher magnification will give you a far more precise aiming point. At 4-500m you don't want to hold over and hope for the best. Also projectile choice probably needs to change as well. Try a heavier bullet for longer ranges. I'm using 165g TGK out of my 18in 308 and I am comfortable to 500m. Projectile has a little over 1000ft/lbs at 500m, your 150g will have significantly less.

308win with the right ammo is more than enough I have snotted reds with 168gn ELDM's at those kind of ranges my current load is 165gn BTSP which I am also confident will do the job.
You don't need massive magnification to shoot red deer at 400y but a good 3-9 or 2-12 will give you confidence on shot placement over a 1-5 at that range.
Some people can shoot at 4-500 yards no worries with a low power scope, personally I would want a little more, my 308win currently wears a 2-16x50 Element HDLR its a bit of a hefty beast, but it does everything i want it to. I had a 2-12 on it prior to that and that also was more than adequate out to 400+yards for red deer sized targets.
for the record my furthest kill on a red with my 308win is 470 yards 1 shot, did a wobbly dance on the spot and tipped over dead as a dead thing.

Thus WHY I said go shoot some wallabies with current set up. Try it for yourself either it will work for you or it won't. If the 1_5x suits 99% of your hunting and you can make it work for the other 1% why put up with bigger heavier scope the sucks more at bottom end?to each their own.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Thus WHY I said go shoot some wallabies with current set up. Try it for yourself either it will work for you or it won't. If the 1_5x suits 99% of your hunting and you can make it work for the other 1% why put up with bigger heavier scope the sucks more at bottom end?to each their own.

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I wasn't arguing with you, just giving my perspective from my experience......no different to what you did.

there are 2 things at play here, the projectile choice 150gn I would suspect would be less than ideal at 500y, and the scope choice which is personal preference (the O.P stating that he felt it was "lacking" for him at that distance).

IMO the O,P made the right call on the day, not to take the shot.

I wasn't talking to you....I don't bother wasting my time doing that anymore.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I wasn't talking to you....I don't bother wasting my time doing that anymore.

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clearly :roll:

Well firstly you didn't miss . . . Sometimes not taking a shot is the best thing. Not too many people recall the shots they took and had an animal run off. Even less would have the skills to stay on target and be completely sure it was a clean miss or hit and wounded (especially from an improvised position "on the hill"). This cognitive bias thing seems to be rife on the internet and particularly youtube where a wee edit fixes everything!

You’ve had plenty of advice so far, but here is the key takeaway for me.

1. .308 is plenty for the distance with the right bullets - something like an ELD-M
2. Don’t over-scope yourself. You can get away with 1.5x magnification per 100yds. The reason to go lower magnification, is that you can keep the target in view when you send the shot (important when solo) The lower the recoil, the more magnification you can get away with.

I’ve been transitioning to less power lately, and it’s a definite improvement. Shot some goats recently right on 400yds with 8-10x no problem, and didn’t lose the target at the shot. Saw it all play out. I do all my group shooting at 100m now on 7-8x even though the scope goes to 15x

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Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

You’ve had plenty of advice so far, but here is the key takeaway for me.

1. .308 is plenty for the distance with the right bullets - something like an ELD-M
2. Don’t over-scope yourself. You can get away with 1.5x magnification per 100yds. The reason to go lower magnification, is that you can keep the target in view when you send the shot (important when solo) The lower the recoil, the more magnification you can get away with.

I’ve been transitioning to less power lately, and it’s a definite improvement. Shot some goats recently right on 400yds with 8-10x no problem, and didn’t lose the target at the shot. Saw it all play out. I do all my group shooting at 100m now on 7-8x even though the scope goes to 15x

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Very good advice right there. If ya ain't gonna hit with 10x at 500 going to 15 or 20 isnt going to change a thing. For some reason I dont understand lots of shooters seem to have a problem "seeing" an aiming point. Even wiith open sights where the bead covers quite a bit of animal its critical to have a definitive aim point on the animal.

1 negative to me of lower mag scopes is you don't really know how much wobble you have going on, with say 9-12x at 300-500 you can see when you are not quite steady enough and should reset your shooting position or calm your breathing.
This is just my experience, I know R93 could hit a gnat at 1200 with a 22 with open sights, I am not that good yet.

Remember aim small, hit small

At our range we require shooters to verify a 100M zero before going back.

Often for convenience we'll go straight back to 600Y ( the gongs at this mound are 571M) and usually hang a 500mm gong as a starting point to walk shooters on, especially if theres any wind.

I'd say the first shot hit rate on the 500mm gong at 571M for "hunters" is at best about 50% - thats a lost or wounded deer. It's funny how anybody who posts on a forum thinks they are a better than average marksman, but even funnier that the law of averages doesn't back them up.

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Originally Posted by Tentman

At our range we require shooters to verify a 100M zero before going back.

Often for convenience we'll go straight back to 600Y ( the gongs at this mound are 571M) and usually hang a 500mm gong as a starting point to walk shooters on, especially if theres any wind.

I'd say the first shot hit rate on the 500mm gong at 571M for "hunters" is at best about 50% - thats a lost or wounded deer. It's funny how anybody who posts on a forum thinks they are a better than average marksman, but even funnier that the law of averages doesn't back them up.

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Personnel experience here. It takes a bit of experience to realise your flaws. And admit them. It wasn't until I set up gongs out to 800 meters that I realised that unless I was prepared to go too one hell of a lot more expense, and one hell of a lot more practice, that under field conditions every 50 meters past 450 became harder. And most of that was wind related.
Id say your 50% is spot on.

You haven’t missed him. But by the time you dick about changing your scope etc you will have missed the opportunity. Get back out there this weekend and give it another go. He might show up at 50 yards….

In my short career as a hunter I've got my best group at 100 at .25 of an inch with a 3x. Nowadays my heart beat exceeds a good 1/2 inch at a 100 on 12x.

If longer shots 400-500+ are going to be a regular occurance id recommend a bigger cartridge. If not save the money and just get closer

Thanks for the advice team. I really appreciate it.
I think I will just change the scope out to a 2-10 or 3-12. I don’t want more than that, trying to keep the weight down and 10x will be heaps. 95% of the deer I shoot are generally sub 250m which I am more than comfortable shooting to with less mag.
I have the same scope in 3-12 on the .223 but I tend to shoot that more and actually use the higher end mag a fair bit shooting wallabies across gullies. I’ll try to move to something with a preset dial that I can setup and pretty much forget (as long as I recheck 100m zero occasionally). Or maybe get a holdover reticule to keep it simple.
Might try the hornady sst and see how it goes with my rifle.

Yep, I went down the path of a holdover reticle. You will find with the distance you want to shoot you will not likely need more than 2 stadia. And you dont need to get the habits formed for constant dealing and return to zero.

I had a 2x16x50 scope,weighted 770grams.Just got to heavy after a while and didn't use the 16x bugger all.Went back to a 2x10x50,520grams and 35mm shorter.Shorten the 308 barrel down to 20inchs,shorter suppresser.Now have a nicely balanced rifle and still good for a 400yds plus shot if needed.

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Originally Posted by whanahuia

Yep, I went down the path of a holdover reticle. You will find with the distance you want to shoot you will not likely need more than 2 stadia. And you dont need to get the habits formed for constant dealing and return to zero.

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My thoughts too. I find my longer range shots using stadia quick, convenient and best.

Looks like a good un