New record, strange head

The animal in question will be of predominantly 'Woburn Abbey' breeding with that antler style.
These animals from 'Black Forest' stud are more traditional heads. Click on each sire http://blackforest.co.nz/sires/trophy/

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Originally Posted by Billbob

On the other hand I do like seeing what genetics can do with these stags.

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No dig mate, but this is exactly how the wolf was turned into a pug - selective breeding, years of inbreeding.....and now we have a category in dog shows that would never have been contemplated.

As Billbob has said, firstly genetic's - these stags have been bred using the genetics that give them the head the market wants. And a good velvet head is not necessarily a good trophy head. And the best thing to gain good sized heads regardless of how they look is feed, lots of good feed while they are growing their velvet. Hormones dont do diddly squat and aren't used in the NZ deer industry.

Actually I think I did a presentation during my undergrad degree on antler growth. Fastest growing tissue there is and super chokka full of growth factor.

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no its not disease of infection - its in breeding at its worst mixed highly likely with a lot of supplements - let out of intense breeding farm into a larger paddock night before - now I understand they get these stags into darkroom while they are growing out their velvet and stuff supplements down their throat - could be way to much calcium or similar sparked massive growth spurt during velvet growth to produce such a monstrosity dont know - or just great feed and line breeding - there are hunters from overseas who demand free range fair chase others dont care - I know of one stag shot in a holding paddock alongside darkroom by client with a bow - yup hunted this down in nooozeland (excuse accent)- my guide mate said one did have to work bloody hard to satisfy clients - client would be sucking on a cold one in lodge after shooting stag just on dark - him and his mate are out sweating up a storm getting a 400lb stag out complete with head so client can pose with it in morning - sometimes midnight or worse before getting home - and then up at 4 to do it all again - one just hopes they pay a lot and spend even more

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100% It isn't hunting.

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Originally Posted by Nickoli

No dig mate, but this is exactly how the wolf was turned into a pug - selective breeding, years of inbreeding.....and now we have a category in dog shows that would never have been contemplated.

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my pa made me marry my cousin cause he said we had to keep the farm in the family -I didnt mind cause at least she was purdy

Attachment 217833
Feeding and breeding only, must be some Deer Farmers on here that can posts up facts of how these heads are grown.

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no its not disease of infection - its in breeding at its worst mixed highly likely with a lot of supplements - let out of intense breeding farm into a larger paddock night before - now I understand they get these stags into darkroom while they are growing out their velvet and stuff supplements down their throat - could be way to much calcium or similar sparked massive growth spurt during velvet growth to produce such a monstrosity dont know - or just great feed and line breeding - there are hunters from overseas who demand free range fair chase others dont care - I know of one stag shot in a holding paddock alongside darkroom by client with a bow - yup hunted this down in nooozeland (excuse accent)- my guide mate said one did have to work bloody hard to satisfy clients - client would be sucking on a cold one in lodge after shooting stag just on dark - him and his mate are out sweating up a storm getting a 400lb stag out complete with head so client can pose with it in morning - sometimes midnight or worse before getting home - and then up at 4 to do it all again - one just hopes they pay a lot and spend even more

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That is not correct.

Terrible looking head but I definitely don’t look down on the farmer/safari who’s adapted to making big money from what’s probably otherwise very tough farming conditions for sheep and beef.

What must be remembered is, that with the exception of the Otago deer herd here, all our introduced wild deer came out of parks where they were selectively bred and crossed with other strains to gain bigger antlers. Even the Invermark deer were managed and culled to improve them. Our 'wild' reds had the blood of Wapiti, Maral, Sika and eastern reds infused into them before they ever got to our shores.
The 'traditional' way to hunt these deer of ours is in a game park behind a high wall and not in an unmanaged forest situation as we do here, so to be in keeping with the tradition of our forebears and those stocks from which our deer were bred we would need to all hunt on managed estates. In short, without 'parks' and the tradition of hunting in European parks, we would have no wild deer here

its still mega fugly

Didn’t the Sika come from Woburn who got them from Ireland or something like that as well ? Someone can correct me on that .
That red head resembles nothing of a classic NZ Red Trophy we all recognise , I think it’s bloody ugly , but it not on my wall either and the owner is no doubt proud of his hunting prowess to secure such a fine beast !

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Originally Posted by Lucky

Didn’t the Sika come from Woburn who got them from Ireland or something like that as well ? Someone can correct me on that .
That red head resembles nothing of a classic NZ Red Trophy we all recognise , I think it’s bloody ugly , but it not on my wall either and the owner is no doubt proud of his hunting prowess to secure such a fine beast !

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That red is not what any Trophy Parks are looking for, they will sell on score but the classic shape is really where it is at - just a bigger version of something smaller - looks like a really big wild deer