Thread: Not again!

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Another post from a tramping forum -

1- too many idiots with rifles. its an insult to call him a hunter, he's just an idiot with a gun...
2- Put him in jail for life he is a murderer.
3- It's a sad state of affairs when you can't take your seven year old son into the hills on a long weekend for fear of being shot on a track by one of these over excited idiots.

In thirty years of tramping, I've noticed a real change in the attitude, experience and general demeanour of hunters.
Whereas in the past most were self sufficient, responsible and respectful, it's now all about flying in with as much piss as you can fit in the back of a 500 and to hell with anybody else.

You only have to read some of the imbecilic and largely illiterate posts on a popular New Zealand hunting forum to realise that you don't need to be all that bright to hold a firearms license.

Everybody has the right to use the outdoors and feel safe.

I'll be disappointed if this dickhead gets sentenced anything less than a term of imprisonment.
4- The good hunters are still around but you are correct in the number of people that think hunting is sitting at the edge of a clearing with a 6 pack waiting for something to happen.
The hunting based reality tv seems based around exactly this style of hunting if its not guided hunting where a guide takes you to where he knows a trophy can be found. I have to wonder how safe some of these guides sometimes feel when they meet their fully armed clients.
Ive heard storys from overseas where the guide takes you to a tethered animal. It hasnt got this bad here yet has it?
5-
I'm torn about this. On one hand I'm dumbstruck about how increadibly stupid and irresponsible some people are with guns. It's a devestating thing for victims and all those around them, and it'd be stupid for there not to be serious repercussions. But I'm also not convinced that blanket long term incaceration for extensive periods of time, at everyone else's great expense, will actually fix the problem
6- If we took the time to look at the life story of most people who take another's life, we would most likely feel pity and tend to look toward a more lenient sentence. But we don't. Why do we do so with hunters?

I don't care about anything but the fact these irresponsible idiots kill someone who is out enjoying their weekend.

I feel the same way about drink drivers.

I can not take my kids into the hills for a month until these fools go back to where ever it is these people lurk.

As far as I'm concerned wild deer are a noxious pest and should be hunted to extinction in much the same way that we would like to do possums and stoats.

We need to end this Barry Crump romantic vision of the good keen man and realise that this persona only came about because of men who were trying to eradicate these animals for good in the first place.

Not to strut around like primal alpha males, for a few weeks each year.
7- too many people dont have the right attitude and training to be using a rifle in the hills. theres no system in place at present which brings enough people using rifles up to the standard required to be using a firearm safely.

our tramping party arrived at a hut once, one bunk left, one of our guys took the bunk while the rest of us camped,
a short while later the tramper came out of the hut and said "beam me up scotty, theres no intelligent life in there"

i recall a conversation between hunters, one of them didnt know he had to clean and oil his rifle....

look at how guns are portrayed on TV and in the movies. they are shown to be used in a glamourised way by sexy cool people, dont like a situation? sort it out with your firearm...
8- To my mind the more pressing issue lay with the practise of spotlighting in general. Especially on DoC land where other people are likely to be about.

Others have mentioned the various hunting programs around. I wonder how many of them devote any time to 'identify your target' and the other golden rules of firearm use? Not all that much I suspect.
9- if you use a firearm you better think very carefully how you use it, or find another way to use your spare time...
people have to grow up and realise hunting is a serious business, mummy can't bale you out of this when you shoot someone, you're in the hands of the police and justice system. being sorry doesn't bring the dead person back to life. its the firers responsiblity to do due diligence before pulling the trigger, it's the law, same as when you're on the road you follow the road rules, if you flout the rules enough there can be serious consequences...
10- But I do agree totally that using a gun is a very serious business and that there are indeed too many in the hills, especially at the roar, who don't treat it seriously.

More than a few of us these days regard these weeks in March/April as 'no go tramping' zones.

Personally I've long argued that ALL hunters must belong to a recognised and regulated hunting organisation. Their role would be expanded by law to encompass gun ownership registration and mandatory, routine safety training. No pass the test, no gun.
11- As a long time hunter I have very strong views about how firearms are percieved in New Zealand and in the media. I am disturbed that as a society we seem to trivialise firearms and their effects. We give our children toy firearms at a very early age and encourage them to use them in play that involves "shooting" others. Most so called "action" movies and television shows also trivialise the consequences of being shot with any type of firearm. I have been an emergency service worker for many years and a hunter for over 50 years and have seen a number of gunshot wounds. Even those considered minor, cause considerable pain and suffering while more serious wounds are life changing. If we are to believe what we see on our screens people are able to be shot and continue as if nothing has happened whereas the reality is that any gunshot wound almost always is immediately immobilising and painfully traumatic.
Without commenting specifically on the current incident I believe that anyone who fatally shoots another person in a hunting context should, as a default position be charged with manslaughter
12- hunting is an adrenaline sport for a lot of hunters, something to do for a buzz and excitement, and the consequences and responsibilities involved in using a firearm just go out the door.
13- the prospect of some socially and intellectually deficient hunter who compensates by owning a gun and shooting animals for the love of it worries me.
The same applies to these tv fishing prima donas who think it's about adrenalin and high fives.
Kill to get enough to eat (or legally cull)!
Not to get a buzz or take a selfie
The worlds gone mad!
14- cant be a hundred percent of hunters who shoot at people hit them, but theres no stories in the media about near misses, so theres a bigger problem out there than is being reported, there may be several near misses for every hit, i know someone who was shot at and was missed while walking along a well established track....
15- Over the years I've come to hold a lot of respect for skilled hunters. Their experience of the bush is quite different to a trampers, but equally valuable. There is always something to be learned from them, and I've enjoyed a few good evenings sharing a cosy hut with them.

But I'm also aware that everyone starts out in anything as a beginner; and beginner hunters can be bloody dangerous. Ideally hunting novices really should be spending their first few years alongside experienced mates who can mentor and guide them. That's the best way to absorb not only the skills, but the correct attitudes as well.
16- When I expressed an interest in hunting and the outdoors my parents supported me but insisted I joined a club. I joined the local deerstalkers which turned out to be one of the best things I have ever done. There were lots of older guys who - once you had proved you were not a complete idiot would invite you on small group trips which turned out to be the best learning experience possible. I learned more about bushcraft and survival skills in that environment than I ever would have otherwise.
I have recently renewed my firearms license even though I don't hunt much these days and I found the process very thorough as it included an on site visit to check that all my firearms were secured safely, plus my wife was interveiewd seperately to ensure that she did not have any concerns.

Pretty sobering reading @Nathan F. Some of it typical knee jerk stuff but still makes us all look pretty rednecked. Especially the reference to "popular NZ hunting forums".
We really need to think a lot about this in general.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Pretty sobering reading @Nathan F. Some of it typical knee jerk stuff but still makes us all look pretty rednecked. Especially the reference to "popular NZ hunting forums".
We really need to think a lot about this in general.

Yep I agree. You only have to read the dribble on here sometimes to substantiate what that authors talking about. When I joined this forum I did so under my name so I have to put my brain into gear before I type. It's easy to hide behind a non de plume and talk shit.